One subtle deception of John MacArthur: Bad Quotes

I am amazed that more people do not understand that Truth protects us… we do not protect truth.

John MacArthur states in his book The Truth War…

“It is our duty to guard, proclaim, and pass that truth on to the next generation.” [1 Timothy 6:20–21]

Now let’s go look at his reference.

“O Timothy! Guard what was committed to your trust, avoiding the profane and idle babblings and contradictions of what is falsely called knowledge— 21 by professing it some have strayed concerning the faith. Grace be with you. Amen.”

Note how subtle this is… but that is how Satan works!

Yes, Paul is stating to Timothy to “Guard what was committed to your trust..” but does Paul go on to say “go out and fight and expose those who attack truth.”? No.

Paul simply states to Timothy to guard Truth by, “avoiding the profane and idle babblings and contradictions of what is falsely called knowledge…”

Notice the word… “avoiding“. It does not nor has ever meant to declare war on others.

My Truth is the Person of Jesus Christ. I see that He protects me… I cannot do anything to protect Jesus for He is God and I am a mere man.

So, my question is this… What kind of god needs protecting? And if that god does, how can a finite man protect an Almighty, all powerful God?

It seems to me that John MacArthur has diminished God from Who He really is in this “truth war” and the more I learn of John MacArthur’s theology, the more I wonder if he thinks himself greater than God Himself…

One subtle deception of John MacArthur: Bad Quotes

I am amazed that more people do not understand that Truth protects us… we do not protect truth.

John MacArthur states in his book The Truth War…

“It is our duty to guard, proclaim, and pass that truth on to the next generation.” [1 Timothy 6:20–21]

Now let’s go look at his reference.

“O Timothy! Guard what was committed to your trust, avoiding the profane and idle babblings and contradictions of what is falsely called knowledge— 21 by professing it some have strayed concerning the faith. Grace be with you. Amen.”

Note how subtle this is… but that is how Satan works!

Yes, Paul is stating to Timothy to “Guard what was committed to your trust..” but does Paul go on to say “go out and fight and expose those who attack truth.”? No.

Paul simply states to Timothy to guard Truth by, “avoiding the profane and idle babblings and contradictions of what is falsely called knowledge…”

Notice the word… “avoiding“. It does not nor has ever meant to declare war on others.

My Truth is the Person of Jesus Christ. I see that He protects me… I cannot do anything to protect Jesus for He is God and I am a mere man.

So, my question is this… What kind of god needs protecting? And if that god does, how can a finite man protect an Almighty, all powerful God?

It seems to me that John MacArthur has diminished God from Who He really is in this “truth war” and the more I learn of John MacArthur’s theology, the more I wonder if he thinks himself greater than God Himself…

So Ken Silva… What is your beef with Tony Jones?

I am going to just ask this open question.

I have read much of Ken Silva’ “false” accusations against many… yet I am wondering what are the specific things Ken holds against Tony?

Now, if you use the “Tony used the “f” word… I will remind you Ken you used the headline,and the quote many more times than Tony has… and in fact I am on record as asking Tony to tame down his language… so let’s move on from that one.

Yet, how can you justify the name calling?

What are the facts behind these “names”… that make them so true?

I am holding this out so that you can state your case. So far I see these as slander and lies… but then, it seems you thrive on those things.

So, without making this all about me… let’s talk about Tony Jones… and all the facts (which seemed to become opinions as of late) that you have piling up against him.

iggy

Updated: This is an example of Ken’s “research” (now opinion) in which as usual he gives only half the story.

Source 1: Ken lies and slanders Bruce.

Source 2: Bruce tells the rest of the story.

So Ken… about the lies and slander (I mean “opinions”) concerning Tony… I am still waiting for you to prove your lies and slander as Truth…

So Ken Silva… What is your beef with Tony Jones?

I am going to just ask this open question.

I have read much of Ken Silva’ “false” accusations against many… yet I am wondering what are the specific things Ken holds against Tony?

Now, if you use the “Tony used the “f” word… I will remind you Ken you used the headline,and the quote many more times than Tony has… and in fact I am on record as asking Tony to tame down his language… so let’s move on from that one.

Yet, how can you justify the name calling?

What are the facts behind these “names”… that make them so true?

I am holding this out so that you can state your case. So far I see these as slander and lies… but then, it seems you thrive on those things.

So, without making this all about me… let’s talk about Tony Jones… and all the facts (which seemed to become opinions as of late) that you have piling up against him.

iggy

Updated: This is an example of Ken’s “research” (now opinion) in which as usual he gives only half the story.

Source 1: Ken lies and slanders Bruce.

Source 2: Bruce tells the rest of the story.

So Ken… about the lies and slander (I mean “opinions”) concerning Tony… I am still waiting for you to prove your lies and slander as Truth…

The Gospel According to John MacArthur

John W. Robbins wrote an interesting article that when I read it I had to laugh as much of what i have found true of Macarthur’s “Gospel” is stated by Dr. Robbins.

A bit about J.W. Robbins. First he is no fly by night “Trout” anti MacArthur propagandist. In fact even if much that is right on about some of those guys, there is also much to be said about staying away from them also. So many that “attack” MacArthur are on the fringe.

Now though there are many that are biblical scholars that stand up and review the actual theology of MacArthur. I see Dr. Robbins in this category.

Here is his bio.

Here is a bit of the article on John MacArthur’s theology:

“MacArthur rejects the Biblical view of justification and adopts the Roman Catholic view: “Many people believe justified means ‘just-as-if-I’d-never-sinned.’ In other words, God says, ‘I count you righteous even though you’re really not.’ It is true that God makes that declaration, but there is also a reality of righteousness. We are not only declared righteous; we are made righteous”(Justification by Faith, 1988, 98). This making righteous is accomplished by infusing Christ’s righteousness into Christians: “God actually credits righteousness to our account. He imputes righteousness to us; he infuses divine life into us. He regenerates and sanctifies us. He makes the unholy holy, and therefore declares that we are righteous…. There is a reality–God gives us righteousness, and thus he can declare that we are righteous” (Justification, 121). MacArthur writes: “The believing sinner is justified by righteousness infused into him” (Justification, 122).”

Here is the whole article.

Download the PDF version of this review.

Here is a link to the The Westminster Confession of Faith at the Center for Reformed Theology and Apologetics

Be blessed,
iggy

The Gospel According to John MacArthur

John W. Robbins wrote an interesting article that when I read it I had to laugh as much of what i have found true of Macarthur’s “Gospel” is stated by Dr. Robbins.

A bit about J.W. Robbins. First he is no fly by night “Trout” anti MacArthur propagandist. In fact even if much that is right on about some of those guys, there is also much to be said about staying away from them also. So many that “attack” MacArthur are on the fringe.

Now though there are many that are biblical scholars that stand up and review the actual theology of MacArthur. I see Dr. Robbins in this category.

Here is his bio.

Here is a bit of the article on John MacArthur’s theology:

“MacArthur rejects the Biblical view of justification and adopts the Roman Catholic view: “Many people believe justified means ‘just-as-if-I’d-never-sinned.’ In other words, God says, ‘I count you righteous even though you’re really not.’ It is true that God makes that declaration, but there is also a reality of righteousness. We are not only declared righteous; we are made righteous”(Justification by Faith, 1988, 98). This making righteous is accomplished by infusing Christ’s righteousness into Christians: “God actually credits righteousness to our account. He imputes righteousness to us; he infuses divine life into us. He regenerates and sanctifies us. He makes the unholy holy, and therefore declares that we are righteous…. There is a reality–God gives us righteousness, and thus he can declare that we are righteous” (Justification, 121). MacArthur writes: “The believing sinner is justified by righteousness infused into him” (Justification, 122).”

Here is the whole article.

Download the PDF version of this review.

Here is a link to the The Westminster Confession of Faith at the Center for Reformed Theology and Apologetics

Be blessed,
iggy

John MacArthur: Can one be an Arminian and still be saved?

I read from two different sources what John MacArthur thinks concerning salvation of Arminians… and really I ended up scratching my head… what does he really believe?

“So, they are diametrically opposed. The question comes, “Can somebody who holds an Arminian view be a Christian?” And I would hate to say they couldn’t be. I really believe that it is possible to be Arminian and to be a Christian…to misunderstand your human capability, to misunderstand the election, to misunderstand the extent of the atonement, even to misunderstand the irresistible nature of God’s saving grace, and even to think you could lose your salvation. But, at the same time–while being confused or ignorant of those things–to know that you’re a sinner and know that the only way of salvation is through Jesus Christ. I guess you could say that someone could be an Arminian and push those points far enough, where they could jeopardize my confidence that they really are a Christian. You could push the point of not being totally depraved far enough where you’re actually being saved by your own works, by your own belief, by your own ingenuity, by your own self-induced faith. And you could get to the point where you could really wonder whether someone understands that it’s all a work of God.

But, I think it would be going too far to say someone who holds an Arminian view, or anyone who holds an Arminian view, is, by virtue of that view, not a Christian. I think there are people who just don’t understand rightly those things, but who know they’re sinners and who cry out in their sin for the Lord to save them. They don’t understand how what they’re doing works together with the great purposes and power of God, and consequently can’t give God fully the glory He deserves for all of that, but they could be genuinely saved, by hoping in Christ and Christ alone.” Source

Or this?

“He (Spurgeon) preached that both predestination and (limited) free-will were simultaneously in full force. He believed that in the end that salvation was wholly of God from start to finish, and yet God secures the complete cooperation of our wills in so-doing. He decried both antinomianism and fatalism (only predestination) and Arminianism (only free will) and said that anyone who denied either of these two truths was engaged in heresy.

He openly called both heresy. I tend to agree. I really like what this guy says since I had come to the same conclusions myself.

But he said something that confused me for a long time and said that John Wesley (a famous Arminian) was a man of God, yes he disagreed with him, but he said he had great respect for the man.

The best explanation I can come up for this is that Arminians are confused about how they came to Christ, but their definition of the atonement, and who Christ is is accurate, as is their view of sanctification (no striving by works), so it is possible Biblically to admit that Arminians are our brothers and sisters in Christ. It took me a lot of thought to get here however as at first glance I thought a heretical viewpoint always produces heretics who aren’t saved.

The message I heard was that Arminians might be on the the right side of the line, but just barely, just a little more confused thinking about other related issues and the line is easily crossed. You don’t have to get the finer points of theology to be saved, but certain basics are required and Arminianism appears to pass the test, barely, and only if you are willing admit that a faulty view of the atonment is not sufficient to block salvation. As time passes I realize that Spurgeon is essentially spouting double-speak, the definition of heresy is a soul-destroying perversion of either the Gospel or the nature of God. There is no such thing as a heresy that doesn’t kill. Therefore, to be technically accurate, if you believe an Arminian can be a Christian, then to you, Arminianism is not heresy. However, many Arminians of today have swallowed enough other false doctrines to sink their ships so there is no need to argue about Arminianism. I for example was such a one. Spurgeon is consistent with most of his forebears however, including Augustine, who first faced a theology similar to Arminianism, and dealt with it as one would to a brother in Christ, and not as one would deal with a heretic who is outside the body. “
Source

Now, talk about double speak! On one hand Arminians are saved, but are heretics and heresy kills… but as you keep reading John he is clear that they are not saved!

So which is it… or is he double minded?

Be Blessed,
iggy

John MacArthur: Can one be an Arminian and still be saved?

I read from two different sources what John MacArthur thinks concerning salvation of Arminians… and really I ended up scratching my head… what does he really believe?

“So, they are diametrically opposed. The question comes, “Can somebody who holds an Arminian view be a Christian?” And I would hate to say they couldn’t be. I really believe that it is possible to be Arminian and to be a Christian…to misunderstand your human capability, to misunderstand the election, to misunderstand the extent of the atonement, even to misunderstand the irresistible nature of God’s saving grace, and even to think you could lose your salvation. But, at the same time–while being confused or ignorant of those things–to know that you’re a sinner and know that the only way of salvation is through Jesus Christ. I guess you could say that someone could be an Arminian and push those points far enough, where they could jeopardize my confidence that they really are a Christian. You could push the point of not being totally depraved far enough where you’re actually being saved by your own works, by your own belief, by your own ingenuity, by your own self-induced faith. And you could get to the point where you could really wonder whether someone understands that it’s all a work of God.

But, I think it would be going too far to say someone who holds an Arminian view, or anyone who holds an Arminian view, is, by virtue of that view, not a Christian. I think there are people who just don’t understand rightly those things, but who know they’re sinners and who cry out in their sin for the Lord to save them. They don’t understand how what they’re doing works together with the great purposes and power of God, and consequently can’t give God fully the glory He deserves for all of that, but they could be genuinely saved, by hoping in Christ and Christ alone.” Source

Or this?

“He (Spurgeon) preached that both predestination and (limited) free-will were simultaneously in full force. He believed that in the end that salvation was wholly of God from start to finish, and yet God secures the complete cooperation of our wills in so-doing. He decried both antinomianism and fatalism (only predestination) and Arminianism (only free will) and said that anyone who denied either of these two truths was engaged in heresy.

He openly called both heresy. I tend to agree. I really like what this guy says since I had come to the same conclusions myself.

But he said something that confused me for a long time and said that John Wesley (a famous Arminian) was a man of God, yes he disagreed with him, but he said he had great respect for the man.

The best explanation I can come up for this is that Arminians are confused about how they came to Christ, but their definition of the atonement, and who Christ is is accurate, as is their view of sanctification (no striving by works), so it is possible Biblically to admit that Arminians are our brothers and sisters in Christ. It took me a lot of thought to get here however as at first glance I thought a heretical viewpoint always produces heretics who aren’t saved.

The message I heard was that Arminians might be on the the right side of the line, but just barely, just a little more confused thinking about other related issues and the line is easily crossed. You don’t have to get the finer points of theology to be saved, but certain basics are required and Arminianism appears to pass the test, barely, and only if you are willing admit that a faulty view of the atonment is not sufficient to block salvation. As time passes I realize that Spurgeon is essentially spouting double-speak, the definition of heresy is a soul-destroying perversion of either the Gospel or the nature of God. There is no such thing as a heresy that doesn’t kill. Therefore, to be technically accurate, if you believe an Arminian can be a Christian, then to you, Arminianism is not heresy. However, many Arminians of today have swallowed enough other false doctrines to sink their ships so there is no need to argue about Arminianism. I for example was such a one. Spurgeon is consistent with most of his forebears however, including Augustine, who first faced a theology similar to Arminianism, and dealt with it as one would to a brother in Christ, and not as one would deal with a heretic who is outside the body. “
Source

Now, talk about double speak! On one hand Arminians are saved, but are heretics and heresy kills… but as you keep reading John he is clear that they are not saved!

So which is it… or is he double minded?

Be Blessed,
iggy

Of respect and gentleness

Normally I might have had about 5 or 6 posts out this week… yet for some reason I am just not that motivated.

Partly there are some things at work… I won’t go into detail but the stress level has risen a bit. I also have been feeling better but in that I am doing more outside thing. Being on that statin drug limited me as far as what i could or felt able to do… Most often work drained me and I would on occasion go for a walk, but mostly I just felt “tired”.

The other thing is I am taking some time as to a direction… I was going to pop off a couple of “John MacArthur” posts, but they seems lame and quite frankly John MacArthur has become a bit boring. Also, I think that there is not much more to say. I do not agree with “Lordship Salvation” nor do I agree that one must commit to all the things John states one does to be saved… as that is “works” plain and simple… I see that if one accepts Jesus for Who He is… one will grow in their faith and realize what and who Jesus is. Noted that most Lordship Salvation people miss that all will call Jesus Lord one day… but not all will be saved in their acknowledgement of Jesus as Lord. Some will bend that knee and call Him Lord and still enter the Lake of Fire.

NOW, I have had some fun at CRN.info as they have some really good posts up now… I would at least take a look at this weeks worth of post… I have done a lot of comments there… enough to probably have posted a good dozen times here.

Yet, still I am truly wanting to move in a different direction. Sparing with someone over theology is fun, but if the other is more resentful toward you and has little to no respect, it gets a bit tiresome to continue a dialog that seems to only entrench oneself further in one own position.

I will not state the name, but I have also been emailing back and forth with a writer from CRN who thinks I have been using Ken Silva as a punching bag at CRN.info… I noted that it goes like this…

I ask Ken a question concerning he accusation against me or that he set up in an article… Ken responds with mockery or a put down… I do something like a Jujitsu move using Ken’s own momentum and then he just gets nastier.

But, you see the guy missed that Ken started the punch with accusation that have nothing behind them…

I have asked for direct quotes concerning the accusations against people like Brian McLaren…

1. Where has he stated he does not believe in the biblical “Hell”?
2. Where has he stated he is a “universalist”?
3.Where has he stated that to be gay is OK and not a sin?

What I am usually given, if given anything is a video that states we need to have compassion on the lost… which includes gay people… but no where does Brian condone sin.

I also asked for quotes about other accusations.

1. Give me a direct quote where Tony Jones or anyone at Emergent Village denies “biblical” truth.
2. Show me a direct quote that anyone at emergent village denies the “authority” of scripture.

Now, the inerrancy question is not about same issue that most “fundamentalist” think… as they have a definition that is much different from those who originally stated the definition was. And yes, Spencer Burke has stated he is a universalist… but most miss that there is a twist… he believes in hell… so, all emergents deny hell except Spencer… LOL!

It is a crazy world.

In this conversation we acknowledge no one has it all together or has all the answers. Theology should not just be about sword rattling, but it can also be fun. If we cannot talk to each other, then we miss out that someone might have a piece that we needed that can help our understanding of our faith in God. We will and should not all agree… and yes some are or have gone off the tracks, yet i see that in even the fundamentalist who believes KJVonly… or that tongue have ended… or that prophecy has ended… (as in the case of Frank Turk at teampyro, who seems to like to defend the self proclaimed last day prophet Ken Silva… go figure that one out).

This is a fascinating time and really a hard time. Many miss that schools do not teach “biblical” ideas… that God is not a given in most homes and that the American dream has replace Christian values. Yet, somehow people expect that others just understand the Christian world view… but you see, the world is watching us… and they are wiser that we give them credit. Even Jesus pointed that out in the parable of the shrewd manager in Luke 16.

When we do not take time to listen and already assume we have the answer I see we lose out at the chance that God will do something even greater. It is not wrong to be able to give an answer… but the last part of the oft quoted verse… is with gentleness and kindness… here see what I mean.

1 Peter 3: 15-16
But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander.

When we lose sight of gentleness and respect truly we must then rationalize things like our judgmentalism… and we lose even more as we give ground for others to speak maliciously against us and against Jesus.

I know I am guilty of this… so no need to write and tell me. Yet, I always look for any opportunity to move toward reconciliation and that one can be restored. I may rag on Ken Silva, but I earnestly seek that he can see the harm he has done and that his ministry can also focus on not just the negative, but give praise to those who show that they are orthodox and not just run them down more. I pray that Ken also gives a door to reconciliation and restoration of the brothers he sees as “in sin” and more I pray that humility will allow Ken to go to even greater heights in his ministry.

So, I guess this post is about gentleness and respect for others. Give an answer… but realize that even if you can answer all the questions a person has… the only real answer is Jesus and that is truly all we have to give anyone.

Again, I am far from the target… but that is why I turned to Jesus in the first place.

Be Blessed,
iggy

Of respect and gentleness

Normally I might have had about 5 or 6 posts out this week… yet for some reason I am just not that motivated.

Partly there are some things at work… I won’t go into detail but the stress level has risen a bit. I also have been feeling better but in that I am doing more outside thing. Being on that statin drug limited me as far as what i could or felt able to do… Most often work drained me and I would on occasion go for a walk, but mostly I just felt “tired”.

The other thing is I am taking some time as to a direction… I was going to pop off a couple of “John MacArthur” posts, but they seems lame and quite frankly John MacArthur has become a bit boring. Also, I think that there is not much more to say. I do not agree with “Lordship Salvation” nor do I agree that one must commit to all the things John states one does to be saved… as that is “works” plain and simple… I see that if one accepts Jesus for Who He is… one will grow in their faith and realize what and who Jesus is. Noted that most Lordship Salvation people miss that all will call Jesus Lord one day… but not all will be saved in their acknowledgement of Jesus as Lord. Some will bend that knee and call Him Lord and still enter the Lake of Fire.

NOW, I have had some fun at CRN.info as they have some really good posts up now… I would at least take a look at this weeks worth of post… I have done a lot of comments there… enough to probably have posted a good dozen times here.

Yet, still I am truly wanting to move in a different direction. Sparing with someone over theology is fun, but if the other is more resentful toward you and has little to no respect, it gets a bit tiresome to continue a dialog that seems to only entrench oneself further in one own position.

I will not state the name, but I have also been emailing back and forth with a writer from CRN who thinks I have been using Ken Silva as a punching bag at CRN.info… I noted that it goes like this…

I ask Ken a question concerning he accusation against me or that he set up in an article… Ken responds with mockery or a put down… I do something like a Jujitsu move using Ken’s own momentum and then he just gets nastier.

But, you see the guy missed that Ken started the punch with accusation that have nothing behind them…

I have asked for direct quotes concerning the accusations against people like Brian McLaren…

1. Where has he stated he does not believe in the biblical “Hell”?
2. Where has he stated he is a “universalist”?
3.Where has he stated that to be gay is OK and not a sin?

What I am usually given, if given anything is a video that states we need to have compassion on the lost… which includes gay people… but no where does Brian condone sin.

I also asked for quotes about other accusations.

1. Give me a direct quote where Tony Jones or anyone at Emergent Village denies “biblical” truth.
2. Show me a direct quote that anyone at emergent village denies the “authority” of scripture.

Now, the inerrancy question is not about same issue that most “fundamentalist” think… as they have a definition that is much different from those who originally stated the definition was. And yes, Spencer Burke has stated he is a universalist… but most miss that there is a twist… he believes in hell… so, all emergents deny hell except Spencer… LOL!

It is a crazy world.

In this conversation we acknowledge no one has it all together or has all the answers. Theology should not just be about sword rattling, but it can also be fun. If we cannot talk to each other, then we miss out that someone might have a piece that we needed that can help our understanding of our faith in God. We will and should not all agree… and yes some are or have gone off the tracks, yet i see that in even the fundamentalist who believes KJVonly… or that tongue have ended… or that prophecy has ended… (as in the case of Frank Turk at teampyro, who seems to like to defend the self proclaimed last day prophet Ken Silva… go figure that one out).

This is a fascinating time and really a hard time. Many miss that schools do not teach “biblical” ideas… that God is not a given in most homes and that the American dream has replace Christian values. Yet, somehow people expect that others just understand the Christian world view… but you see, the world is watching us… and they are wiser that we give them credit. Even Jesus pointed that out in the parable of the shrewd manager in Luke 16.

When we do not take time to listen and already assume we have the answer I see we lose out at the chance that God will do something even greater. It is not wrong to be able to give an answer… but the last part of the oft quoted verse… is with gentleness and kindness… here see what I mean.

1 Peter 3: 15-16
But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander.

When we lose sight of gentleness and respect truly we must then rationalize things like our judgmentalism… and we lose even more as we give ground for others to speak maliciously against us and against Jesus.

I know I am guilty of this… so no need to write and tell me. Yet, I always look for any opportunity to move toward reconciliation and that one can be restored. I may rag on Ken Silva, but I earnestly seek that he can see the harm he has done and that his ministry can also focus on not just the negative, but give praise to those who show that they are orthodox and not just run them down more. I pray that Ken also gives a door to reconciliation and restoration of the brothers he sees as “in sin” and more I pray that humility will allow Ken to go to even greater heights in his ministry.

So, I guess this post is about gentleness and respect for others. Give an answer… but realize that even if you can answer all the questions a person has… the only real answer is Jesus and that is truly all we have to give anyone.

Again, I am far from the target… but that is why I turned to Jesus in the first place.

Be Blessed,
iggy