You’ve Got to be Kidding: A different view on the end times prophecy

You’ve Got to be Kidding from Chuck Coty on Vimeo.

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Rob Bell talks about Domitian and the book of Revelation

This is a re-post from a couple of years back. The topic of the Book of Revelation keeps coming up so I thought I would re-post this. I think it very informative and gives a historical perspective of the Book of Revelation in a creative way.

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Rob Bell talks about Domitian and the book of Revelation

This is a re-post from a couple of years back. The topic of the Book of Revelation keeps coming up so I thought I would re-post this. I think it very informative and gives a historical perspective of the Book of Revelation in a creative way.

var addthis_pub=”iggy”;

Just to be super clear … YES! I believe in life after death!

Just to be super clear … YES! I believe in life after death!

I have not read the book “Everything Must Change”, so I will not be so foolish as some to comment on a book I have nto read. Yet I have read many of Brian’s other books and listen to hours of lectures and on and on. Much I hear critics say about Brian I have not seen or heard from him. Recently a friend pointed to an article that was a bit disturbing as it was hard to understand what Brian was stating.

The first link was one I was glad to read as it seemed to clear up some things people have said against Brian. I think that most the critics of McLaren do not understand that other views and interpretations are out there about books like The Revelation. It seems that if one cannot grasp that even some interpretations that are considered the “most biblical” (as well as some doctrines” are relatively new in their development and often are based on summations of creeds and commentaries as well as traditions passed on by men. (Not to be confused with the traditions and teachings passed on by the Apostles.)

I do not recommend blindly trusting or believing anyone. Personally there are some political views I may differ from Brian and even some theological views. I hold that though the Revelation is apocalyptical it is also prophetic as it states it is.(“Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy,” Rev 1:3) I also read it as it states, “v19. “Write, therefore, what you have seen, what is now and what will take place later.” I see that though as some see all has already happened, one thing remains, the Return of Jesus as the book states He will. (I do not see the day of Pentecost as the return of Jesus as it is evident in scripture that even after that day the Apostles looked forward to a literal day of Jesus’ return). I see that as in the OT at times there is a “Near/Far” theme. The example is that of the young girl (virgin) who is prophesied to give birth Isaiah (7:14) which is fulfilled in (2 Kings 16:9.) (I will not indulge in the “virgin” debate that claims that Matt was wrong and misused this “prophecy” I simply see that Matthew knew as most do, that a young girl most likely is a virgin…)

Being that Isaiah 7:14 is fulfilled, yet seems to still give more of a promise to be fully fulfilled later I see that this near far theme is carried out through out the bible. Though I see that almost every thing was fulfilled as Jesus stated it would be in that “generation” by 70AD, (Matthew 24:34) definitely gives a problem to those who only hold to the “future” view of Revelation as it then would make Jesus a liar!

Again, use wisdom and trust in the leading of the Holy Spirit. I found more just reading Revelation that lead me out of the “rapture” view. The deeper I looked at the scriptures that supposedly taught this view the less I saw it. (Though if pressed to have to believe the Rapture, I would be mid trib).

I see that we have a continuation of now until the New Creation comes. This earth and heaven are of the fallen creation. I do not subscribe to the “burn it all” idea, though I see that there will be a major meltdown to come… I see that as a purification of sin. The way I explain it is that God is not destroying this creation in the sense of annihilation as some teach. I see that as I will die and be raised again at the resurrection of the dead I will then be clothed in the imperishable and clothed in immortality. I will still be me. Likewise I see that this creation will rise as such and also be restored but even better… or as Jesus stated, “I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.” (John 10:10) I see that the Life is in the Son and in that we will rise to New Life in the New Creation as New created beings. The New Heavens and New Earth will be this one but in a much greater Glory. This is not denying that God will do some major things in the end of days rather it is fully acknowledging that there may be some terrible days ahead as God brings the two sided sword of justice. One side to set things right the other to punish those who have done wrong.

We must trust God first and foremost. Especially in that He knows His Word better than anyone. He promises to direct our path which to me means that as we read, there may be paths in the scripture we will never understand. It may be that we are not ready. Believe that God will teach you what He wants you to know. Often I have found God has different priorities than I do in what I think needs to be fixed in me. One point was that I was frustrated with a bad habit of swearing. I could control it most the time, yet I was shocked at times of what would flow out of my mouth! I would further feel condemned by it as I would read that fresh and salt water cannot flow from the same well… Yet, God dealt with me over my angry spirit. In that I found more control as he released me from the things that I would be angry about. (Rather God gave me tools to release anger before it worked its way in me too deeply).

Trust in Gods priorities.

Be blessed,
iggy

Just to be super clear … YES! I believe in life after death!

Just to be super clear … YES! I believe in life after death!

I have not read the book “Everything Must Change”, so I will not be so foolish as some to comment on a book I have nto read. Yet I have read many of Brian’s other books and listen to hours of lectures and on and on. Much I hear critics say about Brian I have not seen or heard from him. Recently a friend pointed to an article that was a bit disturbing as it was hard to understand what Brian was stating.

The first link was one I was glad to read as it seemed to clear up some things people have said against Brian. I think that most the critics of McLaren do not understand that other views and interpretations are out there about books like The Revelation. It seems that if one cannot grasp that even some interpretations that are considered the “most biblical” (as well as some doctrines” are relatively new in their development and often are based on summations of creeds and commentaries as well as traditions passed on by men. (Not to be confused with the traditions and teachings passed on by the Apostles.)

I do not recommend blindly trusting or believing anyone. Personally there are some political views I may differ from Brian and even some theological views. I hold that though the Revelation is apocalyptical it is also prophetic as it states it is.(“Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy,” Rev 1:3) I also read it as it states, “v19. “Write, therefore, what you have seen, what is now and what will take place later.” I see that though as some see all has already happened, one thing remains, the Return of Jesus as the book states He will. (I do not see the day of Pentecost as the return of Jesus as it is evident in scripture that even after that day the Apostles looked forward to a literal day of Jesus’ return). I see that as in the OT at times there is a “Near/Far” theme. The example is that of the young girl (virgin) who is prophesied to give birth Isaiah (7:14) which is fulfilled in (2 Kings 16:9.) (I will not indulge in the “virgin” debate that claims that Matt was wrong and misused this “prophecy” I simply see that Matthew knew as most do, that a young girl most likely is a virgin…)

Being that Isaiah 7:14 is fulfilled, yet seems to still give more of a promise to be fully fulfilled later I see that this near far theme is carried out through out the bible. Though I see that almost every thing was fulfilled as Jesus stated it would be in that “generation” by 70AD, (Matthew 24:34) definitely gives a problem to those who only hold to the “future” view of Revelation as it then would make Jesus a liar!

Again, use wisdom and trust in the leading of the Holy Spirit. I found more just reading Revelation that lead me out of the “rapture” view. The deeper I looked at the scriptures that supposedly taught this view the less I saw it. (Though if pressed to have to believe the Rapture, I would be mid trib).

I see that we have a continuation of now until the New Creation comes. This earth and heaven are of the fallen creation. I do not subscribe to the “burn it all” idea, though I see that there will be a major meltdown to come… I see that as a purification of sin. The way I explain it is that God is not destroying this creation in the sense of annihilation as some teach. I see that as I will die and be raised again at the resurrection of the dead I will then be clothed in the imperishable and clothed in immortality. I will still be me. Likewise I see that this creation will rise as such and also be restored but even better… or as Jesus stated, “I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.” (John 10:10) I see that the Life is in the Son and in that we will rise to New Life in the New Creation as New created beings. The New Heavens and New Earth will be this one but in a much greater Glory. This is not denying that God will do some major things in the end of days rather it is fully acknowledging that there may be some terrible days ahead as God brings the two sided sword of justice. One side to set things right the other to punish those who have done wrong.

We must trust God first and foremost. Especially in that He knows His Word better than anyone. He promises to direct our path which to me means that as we read, there may be paths in the scripture we will never understand. It may be that we are not ready. Believe that God will teach you what He wants you to know. Often I have found God has different priorities than I do in what I think needs to be fixed in me. One point was that I was frustrated with a bad habit of swearing. I could control it most the time, yet I was shocked at times of what would flow out of my mouth! I would further feel condemned by it as I would read that fresh and salt water cannot flow from the same well… Yet, God dealt with me over my angry spirit. In that I found more control as he released me from the things that I would be angry about. (Rather God gave me tools to release anger before it worked its way in me too deeply).

Trust in Gods priorities.

Be blessed,
iggy

Universal Judgment Through Christ Alone

To deny that the bible teaches that at one point EVERY knee will bow and EVERY tongue confess Jesus Christ is Lord, denies a very clear and basic teaching of scripture. It is not the evil “Universalism” in that all are “saved”, but the acknowledgment that all will stand in judgement in Heaven before God at the Resurrection. (Isaiah 45: 23-25; Romans 14:11)

All will “universally” be raised and judged, Muslim or Christian, male and female, slave and free… for there are none of these in “heaven” as all mankind has been found unrighteous… we are all wrong and only Jesus is right and our identity, be it male/female/slave/free/christian/Muslim/Hindi/Fundy/conservative/emergent/ODM or whatever matters nothing when we stand before Jesus. All that matters is what He did in and through us and we receive the reward of eternal life because He knew us. Otherwise we stand before Him with nothing but our own words to condemn us and we will be tossed into the eternal Lake of Fire and experience the second death. (Revelation 20)

The ones that have already been raised to Life in the “first resurrection” are those who were martyred. They received the “better resurrection” as stated in Hebrews 11. (Revelation 20 and Hebrew 11:35)

God will judge all of mankind equally regardless to our own view of our self. And at that time if a Muslim speaks “Christ” then his name is in the book of Life, if they do not speak “Christ” then they are tossed into Lake of Fire.

If a Christian speaks “Christ” then he will receive eternal life in the New Creation, if the Christian speaks of his own righteousness, it is the Lake of Fire.

I see this as pretty simple… I do not see why it is so complicated.

There is one caveat; I am not saying that all that bow and confess are saved, it is in the confess of where one’s righteousness comes is where our salvation comes.

Blessings,
iggy

Universal Judgment Through Christ Alone

To deny that the bible teaches that at one point EVERY knee will bow and EVERY tongue confess Jesus Christ is Lord, denies a very clear and basic teaching of scripture. It is not the evil “Universalism” in that all are “saved”, but the acknowledgment that all will stand in judgement in Heaven before God at the Resurrection. (Isaiah 45: 23-25; Romans 14:11)

All will “universally” be raised and judged, Muslim or Christian, male and female, slave and free… for there are none of these in “heaven” as all mankind has been found unrighteous… we are all wrong and only Jesus is right and our identity, be it male/female/slave/free/christian/Muslim/Hindi/Fundy/conservative/emergent/ODM or whatever matters nothing when we stand before Jesus. All that matters is what He did in and through us and we receive the reward of eternal life because He knew us. Otherwise we stand before Him with nothing but our own words to condemn us and we will be tossed into the eternal Lake of Fire and experience the second death. (Revelation 20)

The ones that have already been raised to Life in the “first resurrection” are those who were martyred. They received the “better resurrection” as stated in Hebrews 11. (Revelation 20 and Hebrew 11:35)

God will judge all of mankind equally regardless to our own view of our self. And at that time if a Muslim speaks “Christ” then his name is in the book of Life, if they do not speak “Christ” then they are tossed into Lake of Fire.

If a Christian speaks “Christ” then he will receive eternal life in the New Creation, if the Christian speaks of his own righteousness, it is the Lake of Fire.

I see this as pretty simple… I do not see why it is so complicated.

There is one caveat; I am not saying that all that bow and confess are saved, it is in the confess of where one’s righteousness comes is where our salvation comes.

Blessings,
iggy

The Book of Revelation: Todd Hunter invites you to study wit him

I just received this email from Todd Hunter (I have emailed him in the past but don’t know him personally… I will soon I no doubt) I receive updates for Alpha and Todd is the head of that program in the Vineyard.

Here is the email which I am excited to share and hope you join in…

Blessings,
iggy

A friend of mine Dr. Winn Griffin, from my Vineyard days (and from my George Fox doctoral program) is beginning an on-line Bible study on the book of Revelation.
He writes, “Revelation is as much a challenge to the comfortable within their society as it is comfort for those whose commitment has brought them into tension with the host society of this present evil age. It is a challenge and protest as well as comfort and encouragement.”
I thought you might like to know about this study.

If you are interested and would like to sign up for the study, here is the link:

http://www.gen2rev.com/revelationsignup/

Todd

The Book of Revelation: Todd Hunter invites you to study wit him

I just received this email from Todd Hunter (I have emailed him in the past but don’t know him personally… I will soon I no doubt) I receive updates for Alpha and Todd is the head of that program in the Vineyard.

Here is the email which I am excited to share and hope you join in…

Blessings,
iggy

A friend of mine Dr. Winn Griffin, from my Vineyard days (and from my George Fox doctoral program) is beginning an on-line Bible study on the book of Revelation.
He writes, “Revelation is as much a challenge to the comfortable within their society as it is comfort for those whose commitment has brought them into tension with the host society of this present evil age. It is a challenge and protest as well as comfort and encouragement.”
I thought you might like to know about this study.

If you are interested and would like to sign up for the study, here is the link:

http://www.gen2rev.com/revelationsignup/

Todd