And now for the rest of the story.
I was sent to the abuse dept at www.1colony.com because someone used my site to spam from.
Someone used my address and somehow then spammed people about the yahoo lottery.
How can someone do this? Better, what can someone do to prevent this?
So, watch your domain and let’s find a way to stop spammers.
Blessings,
iggy
Word of Mouth Ministries
Word of Mouth Ministries Blog
iggyROCKS!
And now for the rest of the story.
I was sent to the abuse dept at www.1colony.com because someone used my site to spam from.
Someone used my address and somehow then spammed people about the yahoo lottery.
How can someone do this? Better, what can someone do to prevent this?
So, watch your domain and let’s find a way to stop spammers.
Blessings,
iggy
Word of Mouth Ministries
Word of Mouth Ministries Blog
iggyROCKS!
Politics and iggy
I really wish I could avoid politics altogether. I mean so many people put such importance on politics that it has even infected Christianity in a very sick way.
For the record I am a registered Democrat. The funny thing is I can’t remember voting Democrat except for the last local election where a Democrat and Republican ran together.
I see the Democrats as having great values and their focus on social issues as something I admire. I depart from them where the lobbyists infect and corrupt the purity of these values. With the money that is lining the pockets of many Dem I see a great hypocrisy that clouds these values. To be a “good” Democrat one must value human life and support socialized medicine. (I agree). One must also support a woman’s choice and be pro abortion. (I strongly disagree). It seems the value of human life also comes at the expense of human dignity. One must be helped if they have dark skin. I think this is a misplaced value. It is an over simplified attempt to right a wrong of racism that will not ever be accomplish by emphasizing the differences. I see the Democrats are missing the value of education, and should be pushing better education instead of supporting teachers unions that seem to support (their own interests) the teachers yet the money never reaches the schools apart from the bureaucracy. I believe Democrats should look at a better way of supporting teachers and schools. There is so much more I would add here but suffice it to say that the hypocrisy is being played out with the appointments of judges. Only a few years ago Ted Kennedy stated that it was wrong to ask an appointee what he will decide before he is appointed, now it is the criteria of the democrats to attack an appointee, only because they believe that judges should make the laws of the land to fit their own beliefs. If one takes the time to read some to the early founding Father writings they warned of this very thing… we are so ignorant as we sit and do nothing as the Democrats openly go against the Founding Fathers own desire and hopes for this nation. My greatest criticism of the Democrats is they lack true vision and complain about not having power. No one wants leadership with no vision.
I see Republicans as having good ideals; yet have now real plans to carry them out. I see that they are out to preserve the original intent of the founding fathers and the constitution. Yet, huge corporations seemed to have corrupted these men as the corporations line their pockets and Republicans turn a blind eye to the environment and many social issues. My stomach turned as Bush Senior was stating how being a single mother was a bad thing… Being raised by one I found that offensive and clueless. I see that the big issue is the republicans are very big picture oriented, (good thing) yet are myopic to the social issues that have arisen. I see that they assume that all will understand and accept their ideals, yet they miss that most are ignorant and need to have things explained to them on their level. I don’t mean to slam the American peoples, but we have become lazy… or maybe just tired of the corrupt games the politicians have played for so many years. I like the Ideals; I hate the in ability to actually be leaders.
My greatest criticism of the current administration is that they lack the ability to connect and communicate their vision. So they appear, as Idealistic leaders yet do not seem to have easily defined vision.
So what do we have? Two parties that seem to taking us as a nation nowhere! All I can say is as you go to the polls pray, and make the best choice you can. Often it is the lesser of the two evils… so I understand why some don’t vote at all, who wants any evil to run our nation.
I am not a Bushite. I see that there are some good things he is attempting; I see some stupid mistakes he is doing. I do not see that he is responsible for the whether so I don’t blame him for Katrina; Bush is not God so does not have that power! I do blame that we have allowed this nation to become a nation of handouts, of takers who have no drive to give back and help others. We have become a nation who seems to only care for ourselves and to hell with the rest.
We need prayer. We need repentance. We need to call out to God and ask for mercy. Or we need to concede defeat and accept that this nation must fall.
Blessings,
iggy
Politics and iggy
I really wish I could avoid politics altogether. I mean so many people put such importance on politics that it has even infected Christianity in a very sick way.
For the record I am a registered Democrat. The funny thing is I can’t remember voting Democrat except for the last local election where a Democrat and Republican ran together.
I see the Democrats as having great values and their focus on social issues as something I admire. I depart from them where the lobbyists infect and corrupt the purity of these values. With the money that is lining the pockets of many Dem I see a great hypocrisy that clouds these values. To be a “good” Democrat one must value human life and support socialized medicine. (I agree). One must also support a woman’s choice and be pro abortion. (I strongly disagree). It seems the value of human life also comes at the expense of human dignity. One must be helped if they have dark skin. I think this is a misplaced value. It is an over simplified attempt to right a wrong of racism that will not ever be accomplish by emphasizing the differences. I see the Democrats are missing the value of education, and should be pushing better education instead of supporting teachers unions that seem to support (their own interests) the teachers yet the money never reaches the schools apart from the bureaucracy. I believe Democrats should look at a better way of supporting teachers and schools. There is so much more I would add here but suffice it to say that the hypocrisy is being played out with the appointments of judges. Only a few years ago Ted Kennedy stated that it was wrong to ask an appointee what he will decide before he is appointed, now it is the criteria of the democrats to attack an appointee, only because they believe that judges should make the laws of the land to fit their own beliefs. If one takes the time to read some to the early founding Father writings they warned of this very thing… we are so ignorant as we sit and do nothing as the Democrats openly go against the Founding Fathers own desire and hopes for this nation. My greatest criticism of the Democrats is they lack true vision and complain about not having power. No one wants leadership with no vision.
I see Republicans as having good ideals; yet have now real plans to carry them out. I see that they are out to preserve the original intent of the founding fathers and the constitution. Yet, huge corporations seemed to have corrupted these men as the corporations line their pockets and Republicans turn a blind eye to the environment and many social issues. My stomach turned as Bush Senior was stating how being a single mother was a bad thing… Being raised by one I found that offensive and clueless. I see that the big issue is the republicans are very big picture oriented, (good thing) yet are myopic to the social issues that have arisen. I see that they assume that all will understand and accept their ideals, yet they miss that most are ignorant and need to have things explained to them on their level. I don’t mean to slam the American peoples, but we have become lazy… or maybe just tired of the corrupt games the politicians have played for so many years. I like the Ideals; I hate the in ability to actually be leaders.
My greatest criticism of the current administration is that they lack the ability to connect and communicate their vision. So they appear, as Idealistic leaders yet do not seem to have easily defined vision.
So what do we have? Two parties that seem to taking us as a nation nowhere! All I can say is as you go to the polls pray, and make the best choice you can. Often it is the lesser of the two evils… so I understand why some don’t vote at all, who wants any evil to run our nation.
I am not a Bushite. I see that there are some good things he is attempting; I see some stupid mistakes he is doing. I do not see that he is responsible for the whether so I don’t blame him for Katrina; Bush is not God so does not have that power! I do blame that we have allowed this nation to become a nation of handouts, of takers who have no drive to give back and help others. We have become a nation who seems to only care for ourselves and to hell with the rest.
We need prayer. We need repentance. We need to call out to God and ask for mercy. Or we need to concede defeat and accept that this nation must fall.
Blessings,
iggy
John Kerry was using this time of suffering to push HIS OWN agenda criticize instead of giving answers did as he did though out his campaign…. Complain and not give any new ideas…
I could not help but laugh as I read this and remembered my thoughts after the Kerry/Bush debates where Kerry stated that all Bush did was wrong and his plan of action was to do the same things but more of them… So I concluded that Kerry was going to do what Bush was doing wrong and more of it… I think Kerry needed to think that one out a bit more.
So with that thought when you read this… Remember Kerry’s promise during the debate to do more of the wrong things Bush is doing. (weary grin).
I do not think Bush has done the best job.. But I think it could have been worse.
Blessings,
iggy
Kerry Accuses Bush of Leading ‘Katrina Administration’
By Randy Hall
CNSNews.com Staff Writer/EditorSeptember 20, 2005
(CNSNews.com) — In a speech reminiscent of the 2004 presidential campaign, Sen. John Kerry (D-Mass.) Monday charged that President Bush is heading a “Katrina administration,” an accusation a GOP spokesman called “unsavory at best.”
Kerry — who unsuccessfully opposed Bush in last year’s election — said Hurricane Katrina was a “horrifying disaster” that has shown “Americans at their best and their government at its worst,” but “the bottom line is simple: The ‘we’ll do whatever it takes’ administration doesn’t have what it takes to get the job done. This is the Katrina administration.””
Addressing an audience at Brown University in Providence, R.I., Kerry stated: “Katrina stripped away any image of competence and exposed to all the true heart and nature of this administration.
“The truth is that for four and a half years, real life choices have been replaced by ideological agenda, substance replaced by spin, governance second place always to politics,” the senator added.
“Yes, they can run a good campaign — I can attest to that — but America needs more than a campaign,” Kerry said.
While charging that Bush administration policies have “taken us into a wilderness of lost opportunities,” the senator acknowledged that the president last week had accepted responsibility for what Kerry called “Washington’s poor response” to Katrina.
However, “there’s every reason to believe the president finally acted on Katrina and admitted a mistake only because he was held accountable by the press, cornered by events and compelled by the outrage of the American people, who with their own eyes could see a failure of leadership and its consequences,” Kerry said.
“Katrina is a symbol of all this administration does and doesn’t do,” he added. “Michael Brown — or Brownie as the president so famously thanked him for ‘doing a heck of a job’ — Brownie is to Katrina what Paul Bremer is to peace in Iraq; what George Tenet is to slam-dunk intelligence; what Paul Wolfowitz is to parades paved with flowers in Baghdad; what Dick Cheney is to visionary energy policy; what Donald Rumsfeld is to basic war planning; what Tom Delay is to ethics; and what George Bush is to ‘Mission Accomplished’ and ‘Wanted Dead or Alive.’
Kerry said Americans would “compensate for government’s incompetence” through individual charity, and he said the hurricane’s aftermath has created “a rare accountability moment, not just for the Bush administration, but for all of us to take stock of the direction of our country and do what we can to reverse it.
“This is the real test of Katrina,” he said. “Will we be satisfied to only do the immediate: care for the victims and rebuild the city? Or will we be inspired to tackle the incompetence that left us so unprepared and the societal injustice that left so many of the least fortunate waiting and praying on those rooftops?”
Kerry told the university audience that it’s the government’s job to prepare for the future, not ignore it – to solve problems, not create them.
“This administration and the Republicans who control Congress give in to special interests and rob future generations,” the senator added. “And the fact is we do face serious challenges as a nation, and if we don’t address them now, we handicap your future.”
Kerry said he plans to address some of those challenges in detail over the next few weeks. And he said students must “speak out so loudly that Washington has no choice but to make choices worthy of this great country.”
Republican National Committee Press Secretary Tracey Schmitt was not impressed with the senator’s address.
“John Kerry’s attacks on President Bush’s efforts to assist the victims and rebuild the Gulf Coast don’t come as a surprise — armchair quarterbacking on tough issues has never been a problem for Sen. Kerry,” Schmitt said.
“Such tactics haven’t served him well in the past, and today is no exception,” he added. “The American people have pulled together during a difficult time, and Democrats’ efforts to politicize this tragedy are unsavory at best.”
Kerry wasn’t the only Democrat from last year’s presidential campaign to criticize the Bush administration’s response to Hurricane Katrina on Monday.
Speaking before the Center for American Progress — a liberal think tank in Washington, D.C. — was former Sen. John Edwards, who was Kerry’s vice-presidential candidate in 2004 and often spoke of “two Americas,” one for the rich, another for the poor.
During his speech, Edwards claimed the president is wrong to believe Americans seek a “wealth society,” but instead want a “working society.”
“Stand with me today and pledge to work for an America that doesn’t ignore those in need and lifts up those who wish to succeed,” Edwards said. “Pledge to hold your government accountable for ignoring the suffering of so many for far too long.
“And pledge to do your part to build the America that we have dreamed of — where the bright light of opportunity shines on every person,” Edwards added.
Copyright ̩ 1998-2005 CNSNews.com РCybercast News Service
John Kerry was using this time of suffering to push HIS OWN agenda criticize instead of giving answers did as he did though out his campaign…. Complain and not give any new ideas…
I could not help but laugh as I read this and remembered my thoughts after the Kerry/Bush debates where Kerry stated that all Bush did was wrong and his plan of action was to do the same things but more of them… So I concluded that Kerry was going to do what Bush was doing wrong and more of it… I think Kerry needed to think that one out a bit more.
So with that thought when you read this… Remember Kerry’s promise during the debate to do more of the wrong things Bush is doing. (weary grin).
I do not think Bush has done the best job.. But I think it could have been worse.
Blessings,
iggy
Kerry Accuses Bush of Leading ‘Katrina Administration’
By Randy Hall
CNSNews.com Staff Writer/EditorSeptember 20, 2005
(CNSNews.com) — In a speech reminiscent of the 2004 presidential campaign, Sen. John Kerry (D-Mass.) Monday charged that President Bush is heading a “Katrina administration,” an accusation a GOP spokesman called “unsavory at best.”
Kerry — who unsuccessfully opposed Bush in last year’s election — said Hurricane Katrina was a “horrifying disaster” that has shown “Americans at their best and their government at its worst,” but “the bottom line is simple: The ‘we’ll do whatever it takes’ administration doesn’t have what it takes to get the job done. This is the Katrina administration.””
Addressing an audience at Brown University in Providence, R.I., Kerry stated: “Katrina stripped away any image of competence and exposed to all the true heart and nature of this administration.
“The truth is that for four and a half years, real life choices have been replaced by ideological agenda, substance replaced by spin, governance second place always to politics,” the senator added.
“Yes, they can run a good campaign — I can attest to that — but America needs more than a campaign,” Kerry said.
While charging that Bush administration policies have “taken us into a wilderness of lost opportunities,” the senator acknowledged that the president last week had accepted responsibility for what Kerry called “Washington’s poor response” to Katrina.
However, “there’s every reason to believe the president finally acted on Katrina and admitted a mistake only because he was held accountable by the press, cornered by events and compelled by the outrage of the American people, who with their own eyes could see a failure of leadership and its consequences,” Kerry said.
“Katrina is a symbol of all this administration does and doesn’t do,” he added. “Michael Brown — or Brownie as the president so famously thanked him for ‘doing a heck of a job’ — Brownie is to Katrina what Paul Bremer is to peace in Iraq; what George Tenet is to slam-dunk intelligence; what Paul Wolfowitz is to parades paved with flowers in Baghdad; what Dick Cheney is to visionary energy policy; what Donald Rumsfeld is to basic war planning; what Tom Delay is to ethics; and what George Bush is to ‘Mission Accomplished’ and ‘Wanted Dead or Alive.’
Kerry said Americans would “compensate for government’s incompetence” through individual charity, and he said the hurricane’s aftermath has created “a rare accountability moment, not just for the Bush administration, but for all of us to take stock of the direction of our country and do what we can to reverse it.
“This is the real test of Katrina,” he said. “Will we be satisfied to only do the immediate: care for the victims and rebuild the city? Or will we be inspired to tackle the incompetence that left us so unprepared and the societal injustice that left so many of the least fortunate waiting and praying on those rooftops?”
Kerry told the university audience that it’s the government’s job to prepare for the future, not ignore it – to solve problems, not create them.
“This administration and the Republicans who control Congress give in to special interests and rob future generations,” the senator added. “And the fact is we do face serious challenges as a nation, and if we don’t address them now, we handicap your future.”
Kerry said he plans to address some of those challenges in detail over the next few weeks. And he said students must “speak out so loudly that Washington has no choice but to make choices worthy of this great country.”
Republican National Committee Press Secretary Tracey Schmitt was not impressed with the senator’s address.
“John Kerry’s attacks on President Bush’s efforts to assist the victims and rebuild the Gulf Coast don’t come as a surprise — armchair quarterbacking on tough issues has never been a problem for Sen. Kerry,” Schmitt said.
“Such tactics haven’t served him well in the past, and today is no exception,” he added. “The American people have pulled together during a difficult time, and Democrats’ efforts to politicize this tragedy are unsavory at best.”
Kerry wasn’t the only Democrat from last year’s presidential campaign to criticize the Bush administration’s response to Hurricane Katrina on Monday.
Speaking before the Center for American Progress — a liberal think tank in Washington, D.C. — was former Sen. John Edwards, who was Kerry’s vice-presidential candidate in 2004 and often spoke of “two Americas,” one for the rich, another for the poor.
During his speech, Edwards claimed the president is wrong to believe Americans seek a “wealth society,” but instead want a “working society.”
“Stand with me today and pledge to work for an America that doesn’t ignore those in need and lifts up those who wish to succeed,” Edwards said. “Pledge to hold your government accountable for ignoring the suffering of so many for far too long.
“And pledge to do your part to build the America that we have dreamed of — where the bright light of opportunity shines on every person,” Edwards added.
Copyright ̩ 1998-2005 CNSNews.com РCybercast News Service
I thought this article in our local paper had some great insights.
blessings,
iggy
Faith & values: On-campus ministries feed needs of students
By KIM WOESTE
For The Gazette
Last year I was invited to do a presentation about young adults and worship for a church-related gathering.
As I prepared, I realized I didn’t have enough first-hand knowledge about the topic, so I began conducting some highly unscientific research with students at Montana State University-Billings.
Any time I could create an opportunity, I asked some questions: Do you attend church? Why or why not? When choosing a church, what do you look for? What style of worship is meaningful to you? What helps you connect with God, and what turns you away? What is needed to keep young people active in the church today?
Unfortunately, the answers I received didn’t help much with my presentation. Each student described a different expectation for worship and different hopes for the church. However, as I listened, I did hear some common themes that have proved helpful to me in my work with campus ministry.
The first had to do with food. It was something they all mentioned – that, when money is tight, food can be a powerful motivator. For many, food was the determining factor when deciding whether to attend a function.
The second common theme was a need for community or for belonging.
Each student I talked with described a desire to be welcomed. Several mentioned how important it was to be more than noticed, to be known by name. Others highlighted being prayed for or supported in tangible ways. Most acknowledged that they did not need to be friends with others, but they did need to feel companionship and caring.
The third theme was more difficult to pinpoint. Several students specified a need to discuss the new ideas they were learning in the classroom and how they were being affected by them. Many expressed frustration with sermons and identified the desire to ask questions or to talk about issues instead. Others expressed a need for being heard, no matter how radical their beliefs might sound. They were describing a desire to explore knowledge and faith in a safe environment.
A final commonality among students was a desire to be involved with something meaningful. A few students talked with evangelical fervor about saving souls. Many described a connection with social action; they wanted to work to make a difference in the world. Others simply wanted to believe their faith and their actions mattered.
While these results are certainly unreliable, I believe they help to highlight a few of the purposes for ministry in higher education. These include supporting students and providing pastoral care for persons on campus, encouraging intellectual growth that is integrated with spiritual growth and fostering ethical decision-making or faith that is put into action.
When people ask me why chaplains or campus ministers are necessary, I like to mention these common needs. I also like to remind persons that, when Catholic and mainline Protestant denominations moved into frontier lands, they established schools and hospitals alongside churches. Education was recognized as a basic human need, and denominations stepped up to meet this need.
Ministry in higher education remains a place where churches and denominations meet needs. Through campus ministry programs, students are supported as whole persons – body, mind and spirit; they are fed physically, intellectually and spiritually.
In the midst of transition, students are known by name and welcomed into a safe space for exploring faith and connecting with God and others. In a changing world, students are empowered to live in ways that make a difference.
The Rev. Kim Woeste is campus minister at Montana State University-Billings.
The Faith & Values column appears regularly in the Saturday Life section of The Billings Gazette.
Pastors, ethicists, educators or other experts who would like to write a column about faith, ethics or values for the section, should contact: Susan Olp; Billings Gazette; 401 N. Broadway; Billings, Mont. 59101. Or call her at 657-1281; fax to her attention at 657-1208; or e-mail to solp@billingsgazette.com
I thought this article in our local paper had some great insights.
blessings,
iggy
Faith & values: On-campus ministries feed needs of students
By KIM WOESTE
For The Gazette
Last year I was invited to do a presentation about young adults and worship for a church-related gathering.
As I prepared, I realized I didn’t have enough first-hand knowledge about the topic, so I began conducting some highly unscientific research with students at Montana State University-Billings.
Any time I could create an opportunity, I asked some questions: Do you attend church? Why or why not? When choosing a church, what do you look for? What style of worship is meaningful to you? What helps you connect with God, and what turns you away? What is needed to keep young people active in the church today?
Unfortunately, the answers I received didn’t help much with my presentation. Each student described a different expectation for worship and different hopes for the church. However, as I listened, I did hear some common themes that have proved helpful to me in my work with campus ministry.
The first had to do with food. It was something they all mentioned – that, when money is tight, food can be a powerful motivator. For many, food was the determining factor when deciding whether to attend a function.
The second common theme was a need for community or for belonging.
Each student I talked with described a desire to be welcomed. Several mentioned how important it was to be more than noticed, to be known by name. Others highlighted being prayed for or supported in tangible ways. Most acknowledged that they did not need to be friends with others, but they did need to feel companionship and caring.
The third theme was more difficult to pinpoint. Several students specified a need to discuss the new ideas they were learning in the classroom and how they were being affected by them. Many expressed frustration with sermons and identified the desire to ask questions or to talk about issues instead. Others expressed a need for being heard, no matter how radical their beliefs might sound. They were describing a desire to explore knowledge and faith in a safe environment.
A final commonality among students was a desire to be involved with something meaningful. A few students talked with evangelical fervor about saving souls. Many described a connection with social action; they wanted to work to make a difference in the world. Others simply wanted to believe their faith and their actions mattered.
While these results are certainly unreliable, I believe they help to highlight a few of the purposes for ministry in higher education. These include supporting students and providing pastoral care for persons on campus, encouraging intellectual growth that is integrated with spiritual growth and fostering ethical decision-making or faith that is put into action.
When people ask me why chaplains or campus ministers are necessary, I like to mention these common needs. I also like to remind persons that, when Catholic and mainline Protestant denominations moved into frontier lands, they established schools and hospitals alongside churches. Education was recognized as a basic human need, and denominations stepped up to meet this need.
Ministry in higher education remains a place where churches and denominations meet needs. Through campus ministry programs, students are supported as whole persons – body, mind and spirit; they are fed physically, intellectually and spiritually.
In the midst of transition, students are known by name and welcomed into a safe space for exploring faith and connecting with God and others. In a changing world, students are empowered to live in ways that make a difference.
The Rev. Kim Woeste is campus minister at Montana State University-Billings.
The Faith & Values column appears regularly in the Saturday Life section of The Billings Gazette.
Pastors, ethicists, educators or other experts who would like to write a column about faith, ethics or values for the section, should contact: Susan Olp; Billings Gazette; 401 N. Broadway; Billings, Mont. 59101. Or call her at 657-1281; fax to her attention at 657-1208; or e-mail to solp@billingsgazette.com
Here is an outtake of a discussion aboutÂ
. Ahhh Josh McDowell and well morphed into this discussion. I am discussing with Dan on Tall Skinny Kiwi’s blog.
It seems to me that churches desperately want to display the same certitude that Paul and other NT writers evidently display in their writings. Paul seemingly knew exactly where to draw the lines in terms of heresy, so why shouldn’t we? Paul seemed to have many clear cut answers, so why shouldn’t we? (I realize that Ro. 14 would be an exception, even for top-dowChurcheses, although which categories fall into this passage is a matter of debate.) Overall, they read and preach with this mindset: “Here’s the scripture which _obviously_ means such and such, believe it and don’t argue about what it says [which really means, don’t argue with my interpretation]”.
Two questions. First, does the NT support such an approach? Iggy, you wrote: “I also agree with Paul that there must be some division in the Church to tell who has sound doctrine and who does not”. Could you expand on this? Is a dialogue format of understanding “truth”, through the Spirit, shown in the NT? Would 1 Co 12-14 perhaps be an example? Secondly, does the fact that we no longer have apostles make things different in our day? In other words, is dialogue, the role of the Holy Spirit, and the priest-hood of all believers that much more essential in our day?
Dan,
I want say first off that I want the Relational model to be THE model yet, I must say even within the Relational model there is to be some recognized authority.
Now, with that being said, i beleive that is up to the community of belivers to decide how that authority is plaid out as they see and understand scripture. I believe there are many RIGHT models and only a few wrong ones. But again that is my stinky opinion.
Paul of course was under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit as he wrote and given “authority” (oh that “A” word) by God to preach the Gospel to the gentiles. So we will find a wonderful and colorful mixture of Jew, Gentile, ex temple prostitutes, and such all joining and learning how to fellowship under the New Covenant, which I am sure many had no idea, there was an Old Covenant. And learning also new morals and ethics and many other ways to live with each other under this incredible thing we call God’s Grace and the Body of Christ.
Here are some disjointed thoughts about discussion and arguments.
Now about a model.
In 1 Corinthians there was problems, why? Because there were people at that church! These people as I said were Jews, gentiles, temple prostitutes and such so you can only imagine how that would all mix together. There would be so many different backgrounds and stories and thinking and opinions and… You get the idea. We are called a family. In fact Jesus called us His brothers and said those who do the will of His Father were His mother, brothers, and sisters, we are family. We are even more. We are joined together lets say as Adam was “placed” in the garden, a type of Christ in the OT we are now literally placed in the Body of Christ and have become one in Christ in that way. The body has an authority, the Head…The same with us Jesus being our Head. If He lives then so much more His Body, so to me that shows the “institutional” model may not be Biblically accurate. The body inter-relationally interacts with itself. If part is ill the rest of the body suffers and also finds ways to deal and correct itself to heal itself, usually this is regulated in the brain, which is in the Head. I think often in the institutional model we lose out and not let Jesus through the Holy Spirit minister as Husband and the True Head He is. This to me shows a lack of faith. As the Body of Christ we need to learn how to trust Jesus more and not lean on our ideals of “authority”.
Authority is not bad, but think about this. All of us, even the lost are under the Authority of God. Demons are under His authority, as all creation is. So, the issue is what makes us as “Christians” above and transcend this authority? Grace and Mercy but most of all our Relationship with the Father through Jesus by the power of the Holy Spirit. It is in the relationship authority is not a real issue. We learn to live and love God’s Life and Love. This is so much more than just living under authority.
Blessings,
iggy
Here is an outtake of a discussion aboutÂ
. Ahhh Josh McDowell and well morphed into this discussion. I am discussing with Dan on Tall Skinny Kiwi’s blog.
It seems to me that churches desperately want to display the same certitude that Paul and other NT writers evidently display in their writings. Paul seemingly knew exactly where to draw the lines in terms of heresy, so why shouldn’t we? Paul seemed to have many clear cut answers, so why shouldn’t we? (I realize that Ro. 14 would be an exception, even for top-dowChurcheses, although which categories fall into this passage is a matter of debate.) Overall, they read and preach with this mindset: “Here’s the scripture which _obviously_ means such and such, believe it and don’t argue about what it says [which really means, don’t argue with my interpretation]”.
Two questions. First, does the NT support such an approach? Iggy, you wrote: “I also agree with Paul that there must be some division in the Church to tell who has sound doctrine and who does not”. Could you expand on this? Is a dialogue format of understanding “truth”, through the Spirit, shown in the NT? Would 1 Co 12-14 perhaps be an example? Secondly, does the fact that we no longer have apostles make things different in our day? In other words, is dialogue, the role of the Holy Spirit, and the priest-hood of all believers that much more essential in our day?
Dan,
I want say first off that I want the Relational model to be THE model yet, I must say even within the Relational model there is to be some recognized authority.
Now, with that being said, i beleive that is up to the community of belivers to decide how that authority is plaid out as they see and understand scripture. I believe there are many RIGHT models and only a few wrong ones. But again that is my stinky opinion.
Paul of course was under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit as he wrote and given “authority” (oh that “A” word) by God to preach the Gospel to the gentiles. So we will find a wonderful and colorful mixture of Jew, Gentile, ex temple prostitutes, and such all joining and learning how to fellowship under the New Covenant, which I am sure many had no idea, there was an Old Covenant. And learning also new morals and ethics and many other ways to live with each other under this incredible thing we call God’s Grace and the Body of Christ.
Here are some disjointed thoughts about discussion and arguments.
Now about a model.
In 1 Corinthians there was problems, why? Because there were people at that church! These people as I said were Jews, gentiles, temple prostitutes and such so you can only imagine how that would all mix together. There would be so many different backgrounds and stories and thinking and opinions and… You get the idea. We are called a family. In fact Jesus called us His brothers and said those who do the will of His Father were His mother, brothers, and sisters, we are family. We are even more. We are joined together lets say as Adam was “placed” in the garden, a type of Christ in the OT we are now literally placed in the Body of Christ and have become one in Christ in that way. The body has an authority, the Head…The same with us Jesus being our Head. If He lives then so much more His Body, so to me that shows the “institutional” model may not be Biblically accurate. The body inter-relationally interacts with itself. If part is ill the rest of the body suffers and also finds ways to deal and correct itself to heal itself, usually this is regulated in the brain, which is in the Head. I think often in the institutional model we lose out and not let Jesus through the Holy Spirit minister as Husband and the True Head He is. This to me shows a lack of faith. As the Body of Christ we need to learn how to trust Jesus more and not lean on our ideals of “authority”.
Authority is not bad, but think about this. All of us, even the lost are under the Authority of God. Demons are under His authority, as all creation is. So, the issue is what makes us as “Christians” above and transcend this authority? Grace and Mercy but most of all our Relationship with the Father through Jesus by the power of the Holy Spirit. It is in the relationship authority is not a real issue. We learn to live and love God’s Life and Love. This is so much more than just living under authority.
Blessings,
iggy
emerging thought in Montana 
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