Are we now beyond emerging?

Are we now beyond emerging?

I think many people do not realize what has been happening, especially in the last year or so. What is happening is the solidifying of all these “emerging” thoughts. Many started out as postmodern, yet much of postmodernism is as much against the Christian faith as modernism is. I wrote a long time ago about being post-post-modern, which is in effect that we are about across the bridge between the post modern age, and into whatever is next… and of that what will we be called… and what will the Church be like in this new age…
(I was hesitant to use that term with it’s connotation of the new age movement, truthful the New Age started when Christ rose from the Grave and announced with that the New Creation had now come to earth and the Kingdom was now here. So in effect I see that if we had grasped there would not have been any issue as the pagans would not have been able to claim the “New Age” as it would have been already claimed by the rightful people, the Children of God.)

The term I have found is “Performatism” it is of course based on performance, but even more it is about bring all the postmodern deconstructionism and such in to a collective whole that in essence works… or delivers as it promises.

(Mind you I am just starting my research into this so my first post may be full of holes and wrong assumptions much over simplification. But, yet I will forge forth to try to convey what might be beyond)

Brian McLaren, maybe knowingly or not, has sort of tapped into this with Generous Orthodoxy, yet I see that really we are at the beginning of bringing together all of our thoughts and the things we have worked out and still have to work out. This again, just as deconstructing and revisionism and such will not happen overnight, I suggest it may take at least the next ten years to truly start to gel.

What I see in the future is this… and is already happening.

Many “emerging” will return to the modern view, it is simple to grasp and in a sense I wish I could. But these will either be looking for something to help gel their theologies to make sense. To me any system is as good as the next… the focus of the Christian Life is not a system, it is Jesus. Yet like layers on an onion, God will meet us where we are at. Keep this in mind as I will return to this thought I a moment

If we desire to stay within a system and follow Jesus, I think He will honor that (of course depending on the “system”). I see though that one is called to something deeper. Jesus called us to grow in the Grace and Knowledge of Him… so a static system to me will not allow one to grow… but a fluid theology will allow for growth. To me at least now, I see this works to bring me closer to grasping the incredible complexity that is God. .

I see some will stay in the post-modernistic world view… or keep hammering away… To me this is a good thing as if one is seeking, Jesus promises to be found. So if one is tearing down old paradigms, in order to find the real Jesus (I am not saying reconstructing Jesus in our own image, which is often what modernism has done). But if one is seeking the authentic Jesus again as I said, Jesus will be found.

Some will go beyond, as in Spencer Burke’s vision of living a heretic’s faith. (I will not go into Spencer’s book here, I will soon in another post finish the review.) For me it is not about denying the truth that is in the scripture for our own ideas but looking at these from a perspective beyond religion… religion as defined in going to church, paying tithes, living a nice clean life and supporting a missionary, (again there is nothing wrong with any of that, but if that is all you Christian life is, then you are missing out on the “abundant life” that Jesus spoke of. I may not agree with Spencer on many points, but as far as Grace, and living beyond what we now call Christianity is something that I think God will open up wide for us in the next few years. What I think of this group will fall into two categories even polarized into two groups.

1. An ideology based on humanistic reasoning in which truth is based on “what works for me”. This is not just implied in Humanism, but also in closed religious systems that though may not actually work, have become the “workings” of that individual and in which sole identity and structure depends on their person view and definition of truth… even if it is shared by many others… i.e. Religious systems such as fundamentalist Jihadism (Islam)… or fundamentalist Christianity. These in which rigidity is that focus and in many way the followers will interact in their closed system of belief which is based on human reason and the thought of working ones way through reason, rationalist thinking. I see in that the humanistic reasoning of atheism is no different that the modernistic Christian belief in the power of human reason and faith in propositional truth over revelation truth (Truth in the form of proposition must be kept in proper perspective in relation to the Person of Jesus) that is from the Source of all Truth, Jesus Who is TRUTH Incarnate.
2. This second group I find the most interesting as to the ramifications that can com of it. In essence I see that in all the postmodern deconstruct and reductionism, we will find the origin… and foundation… and in that build upon it and…. Find…. It …. Works. We will in a way if not find realized, the Kingdom on earth as it is in Heaven. It will be “Kingdom Come”. We will find that our faith works. This will be in an integrated and organic way. We will find substance to our faith and actualization not of self, as in the modernist-humanist view, rather the actualization of self with in the whole of all this “workings”.

Of course this is a very simple over view and honestly I have not had time to study this out as I would like. As one who builds his faith on the foundation of Jesus… I can see that the potential of #2 is very exciting. The down side will be the polarization.

If one takes time, one an see that there is a correlation to all this and the prophecies of the end times. There will be a great polarization of human based faith against Faith that comes from God. We will most probably see wars rise as these two groups begin to understand who they are. I see that the first group will persecute the second… some of which I have already personally have received.

Yet, in all that I see the upside. What if this is the time of the Return of Messiah. Beware though I see that the false messiah will come in the cloak of those in #1. Yet, keep your eyes open and I believe the Kingdom will come with the return of Jesus, the One crucified and that Rose again.

The programistic view will be soley an “If… then continue.” That is why it is imperative we understand the importance of Jesus Being TRUTH incarnate, as if the “IF” is not pure and from a verified source… such as TRUTH itself, and it is based on a false assumption, one’s world view will shift into the Kingdom of Darkness. For Satan was liar from the begining.

I hope as I grasp more of this idea to write more on it. Fro more info I suggest this article by Raoul Eshelamn.

Blessings,
iggy

---

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Are we now beyond emerging?

Are we now beyond emerging?

I think many people do not realize what has been happening, especially in the last year or so. What is happening is the solidifying of all these “emerging” thoughts. Many started out as postmodern, yet much of postmodernism is as much against the Christian faith as modernism is. I wrote a long time ago about being post-post-modern, which is in effect that we are about across the bridge between the post modern age, and into whatever is next… and of that what will we be called… and what will the Church be like in this new age…
(I was hesitant to use that term with it’s connotation of the new age movement, truthful the New Age started when Christ rose from the Grave and announced with that the New Creation had now come to earth and the Kingdom was now here. So in effect I see that if we had grasped there would not have been any issue as the pagans would not have been able to claim the “New Age” as it would have been already claimed by the rightful people, the Children of God.)

The term I have found is “Performatism” it is of course based on performance, but even more it is about bring all the postmodern deconstructionism and such in to a collective whole that in essence works… or delivers as it promises.

(Mind you I am just starting my research into this so my first post may be full of holes and wrong assumptions much over simplification. But, yet I will forge forth to try to convey what might be beyond)

Brian McLaren, maybe knowingly or not, has sort of tapped into this with Generous Orthodoxy, yet I see that really we are at the beginning of bringing together all of our thoughts and the things we have worked out and still have to work out. This again, just as deconstructing and revisionism and such will not happen overnight, I suggest it may take at least the next ten years to truly start to gel.

What I see in the future is this… and is already happening.

Many “emerging” will return to the modern view, it is simple to grasp and in a sense I wish I could. But these will either be looking for something to help gel their theologies to make sense. To me any system is as good as the next… the focus of the Christian Life is not a system, it is Jesus. Yet like layers on an onion, God will meet us where we are at. Keep this in mind as I will return to this thought I a moment

If we desire to stay within a system and follow Jesus, I think He will honor that (of course depending on the “system”). I see though that one is called to something deeper. Jesus called us to grow in the Grace and Knowledge of Him… so a static system to me will not allow one to grow… but a fluid theology will allow for growth. To me at least now, I see this works to bring me closer to grasping the incredible complexity that is God. .

I see some will stay in the post-modernistic world view… or keep hammering away… To me this is a good thing as if one is seeking, Jesus promises to be found. So if one is tearing down old paradigms, in order to find the real Jesus (I am not saying reconstructing Jesus in our own image, which is often what modernism has done). But if one is seeking the authentic Jesus again as I said, Jesus will be found.

Some will go beyond, as in Spencer Burke’s vision of living a heretic’s faith. (I will not go into Spencer’s book here, I will soon in another post finish the review.) For me it is not about denying the truth that is in the scripture for our own ideas but looking at these from a perspective beyond religion… religion as defined in going to church, paying tithes, living a nice clean life and supporting a missionary, (again there is nothing wrong with any of that, but if that is all you Christian life is, then you are missing out on the “abundant life” that Jesus spoke of. I may not agree with Spencer on many points, but as far as Grace, and living beyond what we now call Christianity is something that I think God will open up wide for us in the next few years. What I think of this group will fall into two categories even polarized into two groups.

1. An ideology based on humanistic reasoning in which truth is based on “what works for me”. This is not just implied in Humanism, but also in closed religious systems that though may not actually work, have become the “workings” of that individual and in which sole identity and structure depends on their person view and definition of truth… even if it is shared by many others… i.e. Religious systems such as fundamentalist Jihadism (Islam)… or fundamentalist Christianity. These in which rigidity is that focus and in many way the followers will interact in their closed system of belief which is based on human reason and the thought of working ones way through reason, rationalist thinking. I see in that the humanistic reasoning of atheism is no different that the modernistic Christian belief in the power of human reason and faith in propositional truth over revelation truth (Truth in the form of proposition must be kept in proper perspective in relation to the Person of Jesus) that is from the Source of all Truth, Jesus Who is TRUTH Incarnate.
2. This second group I find the most interesting as to the ramifications that can com of it. In essence I see that in all the postmodern deconstruct and reductionism, we will find the origin… and foundation… and in that build upon it and…. Find…. It …. Works. We will in a way if not find realized, the Kingdom on earth as it is in Heaven. It will be “Kingdom Come”. We will find that our faith works. This will be in an integrated and organic way. We will find substance to our faith and actualization not of self, as in the modernist-humanist view, rather the actualization of self with in the whole of all this “workings”.

Of course this is a very simple over view and honestly I have not had time to study this out as I would like. As one who builds his faith on the foundation of Jesus… I can see that the potential of #2 is very exciting. The down side will be the polarization.

If one takes time, one an see that there is a correlation to all this and the prophecies of the end times. There will be a great polarization of human based faith against Faith that comes from God. We will most probably see wars rise as these two groups begin to understand who they are. I see that the first group will persecute the second… some of which I have already personally have received.

Yet, in all that I see the upside. What if this is the time of the Return of Messiah. Beware though I see that the false messiah will come in the cloak of those in #1. Yet, keep your eyes open and I believe the Kingdom will come with the return of Jesus, the One crucified and that Rose again.

The programistic view will be soley an “If… then continue.” That is why it is imperative we understand the importance of Jesus Being TRUTH incarnate, as if the “IF” is not pure and from a verified source… such as TRUTH itself, and it is based on a false assumption, one’s world view will shift into the Kingdom of Darkness. For Satan was liar from the begining.

I hope as I grasp more of this idea to write more on it. Fro more info I suggest this article by Raoul Eshelamn.

Blessings,
iggy

---

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Here’s a treat for your next gathering…

Here’s a treat for your next gathering…

I had a areally good laugh over this from an email from… my mom!

Below is the email…

Blessings,
iggy

Read the ingredients and stuff first and then look at the photo…
Trust me…
Don’t look at the photo first, but last…
This is for all you cooks out there looking for something a little different………
Want to have fun at a party? Prepare this recipe!
Completely edible,but your friends may not think so!
On a recent visit to our veterinarian to get shots for our cat I found this recipe on the waiting room bulletin board. After recovering from hysterical laughter, I obtained a copy from the office staff so that my wife could make it, which she refused to do. I took it to work and gave the recipe to a lady at work who loves cats. The pictures below show the results of her work. It doesn’t look very nice, but it’s actually quite tasty, so I decided to pass it along.

CAKE
INGREDIENTS:
1 box spice or German chocolate cake mix
1box of white cake mix1 package white sandwich cookies
1 large package vanilla instant pudding mix
A few drops green food coloring
12 small Tootsie Rolls or equivalent

SERVING “DISHES AND UTENSILS”
1 NEW cat-litter box
1 NEW cat-litter box liner
1 NEW pooper scooper
1) Prepare and bake cake mixes, according to directions, in any size pan. Prepare pudding and chill. Crumble cookies in small batches in blender or food processor. Add a few drops of green food coloring to 1 cup of cookie crumbs. Mix with a fork or shake in a jar. Set aside.
2) When cakes are at room temperature, crumble them into a large bowl. Toss with half of the remaining cookie crumbs and enough pudding to make the mixture moist but not soggy. Place liner in litter box and pour in mixture.
3) Unwrap 3 Tootsie Rolls and heat in a microwave until soft and pliable. Shape the blunt ends into slightly curved point s. Repeat with three more rolls. Bury the rolls decoratively in the cake mixture. Sprinkle remaining white cookie crumbs over the mixture, then scatter green crumbs lightly over top.
4) Heat 5 more Tootsie Rolls until almost melted. Scrape them on top of the cake and sprinkle with crumbs from the litter box. Heat the remaining Tootsie Roll until pliable and hang it over the edge of the box. Place box on a sheet of newspaper and serve with scooper.

Enjoy!

Kitty Litter Cake

---

Technorati tags:
“Carlos Shelton”, Billings Mt, cake, Carlos Shelton, Christian, Culture, Family, Follower of Christ, kids

Here’s a treat for your next gathering…

Here’s a treat for your next gathering…

I had a areally good laugh over this from an email from… my mom!

Below is the email…

Blessings,
iggy

Read the ingredients and stuff first and then look at the photo…
Trust me…
Don’t look at the photo first, but last…
This is for all you cooks out there looking for something a little different………
Want to have fun at a party? Prepare this recipe!
Completely edible,but your friends may not think so!
On a recent visit to our veterinarian to get shots for our cat I found this recipe on the waiting room bulletin board. After recovering from hysterical laughter, I obtained a copy from the office staff so that my wife could make it, which she refused to do. I took it to work and gave the recipe to a lady at work who loves cats. The pictures below show the results of her work. It doesn’t look very nice, but it’s actually quite tasty, so I decided to pass it along.

CAKE
INGREDIENTS:
1 box spice or German chocolate cake mix
1box of white cake mix1 package white sandwich cookies
1 large package vanilla instant pudding mix
A few drops green food coloring
12 small Tootsie Rolls or equivalent

SERVING “DISHES AND UTENSILS”
1 NEW cat-litter box
1 NEW cat-litter box liner
1 NEW pooper scooper
1) Prepare and bake cake mixes, according to directions, in any size pan. Prepare pudding and chill. Crumble cookies in small batches in blender or food processor. Add a few drops of green food coloring to 1 cup of cookie crumbs. Mix with a fork or shake in a jar. Set aside.
2) When cakes are at room temperature, crumble them into a large bowl. Toss with half of the remaining cookie crumbs and enough pudding to make the mixture moist but not soggy. Place liner in litter box and pour in mixture.
3) Unwrap 3 Tootsie Rolls and heat in a microwave until soft and pliable. Shape the blunt ends into slightly curved point s. Repeat with three more rolls. Bury the rolls decoratively in the cake mixture. Sprinkle remaining white cookie crumbs over the mixture, then scatter green crumbs lightly over top.
4) Heat 5 more Tootsie Rolls until almost melted. Scrape them on top of the cake and sprinkle with crumbs from the litter box. Heat the remaining Tootsie Roll until pliable and hang it over the edge of the box. Place box on a sheet of newspaper and serve with scooper.

Enjoy!

Kitty Litter Cake

---

Technorati tags:
“Carlos Shelton”, Billings Mt, cake, Carlos Shelton, Christian, Culture, Family, Follower of Christ, kids

After a month Blog Fast, TSK is back!

After a month Blog Fast TSK is back!

Yeah that was old news… about a month old now.

I was reading in his blog and read the post about the discussion that took place “down under” and notice something Andrew stated over and over…

“But the emerging church he describes is NOT . . . I repeat NOT. . . [wait . . let me find the bold] . . . NOT the emerging church that i signed up for and NOT the emerging church that i sold the farm for.”

I have to agree. I will say that Andrew has much better knowledge and knows more of the “leadership” (using that term very loosely) than I might ever have a chance to. Yet here I am in the scope of my own critics, and reading other critics and wondering, “What are they talking about?”

I see many things that concern me, yet I believe the scripture also states the wheat and the tare will grow together and God will sort it all out… I believe Scripture!

Matt 13: 24 – 30. Jesus told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away.
When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.
“The owner’s servants came to him and said, `Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’
“`An enemy did this,’ he replied “The servants asked him, `Do you want us to go and pull them up?’
“`No,’ he answered, `because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them.
Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.'”

Why do you appoint yourself to do what Jesus said will be done at the appointed time? Do you claim to be greater than Jesus?

As I read criticisms, I really feel like I am reading about another world other than the one I live. I am called a heretic, yet I affirm Christ’ death burial and resurrection. I have more personal attacks than actual criticism of the Emerging movement… in fact mostly what I get is person… from people who have never even taken the time to actually meet me in person. That is very un-biblical… in fact it shows a total disregard for the scripture they claim to believe… which in turn made me realize, maybe they do not really believe what they think they do!

What I am saying is what James says: Chapter 1:22-26

Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says.
Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like a man who looks at his face in a mirror and, after looking at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like.
But the man who looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues to do this, not forgetting what he has heard, but doing it–he will be blessed in what he does. If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he deceives himself and his religion is worthless.

I do not see your deeds of love, but I do see you wag your tongue. I see someone who at least to me has a worthless religion, and is trying to get me to turn to it! You are just deceiving yourself with that thought.

Again, I believe Jesus was born of a virgin… began His ministry at His Baptism and did miracles by the power of the Holy Spirit… as He depended on the Father. This same Jesus was crucified, buried and then on the 3rd day rose from the grave… having learned obedience even unto death, to be lifted and glorified sitting as the Lion of Judah and the Lamb that was slain on the Throne of God… this same Jesus will raise all in judgment on the last day and give reward to those who not just heard His words, but did them… to those who did not there will be everlasting separation, which is called the second death.

This is Bible plain and simple. I strive in my life to live as Paul said:

Gal 2: 20-21. I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!”

I guess what I am saying is that if I am not a brother in Christ, then what are you saying?

What I hear is this….

You believe that by reasons and rational thinking that one can read propositions live by them and then gain access to Heaven. Jesus though may be a person, or may not be nothing more than a proposition is/is not the TRUTH. (A bit confusing but that is what I hear you say… how can he both? How can you reduce Jesus to a bunch of words on a page of a book?

I hear that Love is not important because the number # thing on your list is:

“I am doing this blog to refute the Emergent. I do so for a number of reasons. First, Christians are to oppose , expose, and eliminate false teaching at every chance.”

I thought first we are to “`Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment.
And the second is like it: `Love your neighbor as yourself.’
All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

I hope that that verse looks a little familiar…I will let you look it up yourself. I think though these being Jesus’ own words… they should be believed!

You hold logic over the Holy Spirit revelation.

You hold knowledge and belief over a relationship with Christ.

I believe no one can be saved except by the power of the Holy Spirit. I believe it is by our relationship in Christ that we are a New Creation, having our minds renewed and our spirits regenerated.

The whole and only reason I do my blog is to share Christ Jesus in my life… to share the wonders and the change that has happened in me… and that is what you ridicule!

I am way past being angry. Anger does nothing but harm the person that is angry, so I released that to God and forgave you, living out my conviction by the Holy Spirit and by the same Power… and you mocked me again?

I find myself in a quandary as to how you expect me to “repent” when you have no idea how I actually live my life? Who are you to judge anyone? Again I turned to scripture to appeal to you “logic and reason” yet you rush it aside… which really only proves my point as to the fallacy of human reason…

Romans 2: 1-4

You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. So when you, a mere man, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment?
Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness leads you toward repentance?

Both my critics claim to have knowledge of Greek and one claims to teach Greek and Hebrew… Yet neither can read plain English! I believe the scripture… I see it for what it says and I fear for you on the last day! I pray for you daily so that God will reveal His Kindness and Love to you. I pray daily for you to receive the Mercy and Grace of this awesome and wonderful God!

And you still mocked me.

So, what do I do? I will continue to Live for Christ.. Let Him be my very life and continue to preach and teach Jesus as I have come to know Him… He is my Lord, Savior, King, Teacher, Friend, and Brother. (Don’t those words seem a little relational to you?)

My only appeal is to not let your reasoning, and propositions (which I do not deny but need to be in proper perspective in relation to Jesus) get in the way of the Person of Jesus.

As far as the caricature that you have drawn of me and others… I forgive you and will continue to as Jesus said to… so receive it or reject it… that is oft the proof of the condition of your heart not mine.

Blessings,
iggy

---

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After a month Blog Fast, TSK is back!

After a month Blog Fast TSK is back!

Yeah that was old news… about a month old now.

I was reading in his blog and read the post about the discussion that took place “down under” and notice something Andrew stated over and over…

“But the emerging church he describes is NOT . . . I repeat NOT. . . [wait . . let me find the bold] . . . NOT the emerging church that i signed up for and NOT the emerging church that i sold the farm for.”

I have to agree. I will say that Andrew has much better knowledge and knows more of the “leadership” (using that term very loosely) than I might ever have a chance to. Yet here I am in the scope of my own critics, and reading other critics and wondering, “What are they talking about?”

I see many things that concern me, yet I believe the scripture also states the wheat and the tare will grow together and God will sort it all out… I believe Scripture!

Matt 13: 24 – 30. Jesus told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away.
When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.
“The owner’s servants came to him and said, `Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’
“`An enemy did this,’ he replied “The servants asked him, `Do you want us to go and pull them up?’
“`No,’ he answered, `because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them.
Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.'”

Why do you appoint yourself to do what Jesus said will be done at the appointed time? Do you claim to be greater than Jesus?

As I read criticisms, I really feel like I am reading about another world other than the one I live. I am called a heretic, yet I affirm Christ’ death burial and resurrection. I have more personal attacks than actual criticism of the Emerging movement… in fact mostly what I get is person… from people who have never even taken the time to actually meet me in person. That is very un-biblical… in fact it shows a total disregard for the scripture they claim to believe… which in turn made me realize, maybe they do not really believe what they think they do!

What I am saying is what James says: Chapter 1:22-26

Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says.
Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like a man who looks at his face in a mirror and, after looking at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like.
But the man who looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues to do this, not forgetting what he has heard, but doing it–he will be blessed in what he does. If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he deceives himself and his religion is worthless.

I do not see your deeds of love, but I do see you wag your tongue. I see someone who at least to me has a worthless religion, and is trying to get me to turn to it! You are just deceiving yourself with that thought.

Again, I believe Jesus was born of a virgin… began His ministry at His Baptism and did miracles by the power of the Holy Spirit… as He depended on the Father. This same Jesus was crucified, buried and then on the 3rd day rose from the grave… having learned obedience even unto death, to be lifted and glorified sitting as the Lion of Judah and the Lamb that was slain on the Throne of God… this same Jesus will raise all in judgment on the last day and give reward to those who not just heard His words, but did them… to those who did not there will be everlasting separation, which is called the second death.

This is Bible plain and simple. I strive in my life to live as Paul said:

Gal 2: 20-21. I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!”

I guess what I am saying is that if I am not a brother in Christ, then what are you saying?

What I hear is this….

You believe that by reasons and rational thinking that one can read propositions live by them and then gain access to Heaven. Jesus though may be a person, or may not be nothing more than a proposition is/is not the TRUTH. (A bit confusing but that is what I hear you say… how can he both? How can you reduce Jesus to a bunch of words on a page of a book?

I hear that Love is not important because the number # thing on your list is:

“I am doing this blog to refute the Emergent. I do so for a number of reasons. First, Christians are to oppose , expose, and eliminate false teaching at every chance.”

I thought first we are to “`Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment.
And the second is like it: `Love your neighbor as yourself.’
All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

I hope that that verse looks a little familiar…I will let you look it up yourself. I think though these being Jesus’ own words… they should be believed!

You hold logic over the Holy Spirit revelation.

You hold knowledge and belief over a relationship with Christ.

I believe no one can be saved except by the power of the Holy Spirit. I believe it is by our relationship in Christ that we are a New Creation, having our minds renewed and our spirits regenerated.

The whole and only reason I do my blog is to share Christ Jesus in my life… to share the wonders and the change that has happened in me… and that is what you ridicule!

I am way past being angry. Anger does nothing but harm the person that is angry, so I released that to God and forgave you, living out my conviction by the Holy Spirit and by the same Power… and you mocked me again?

I find myself in a quandary as to how you expect me to “repent” when you have no idea how I actually live my life? Who are you to judge anyone? Again I turned to scripture to appeal to you “logic and reason” yet you rush it aside… which really only proves my point as to the fallacy of human reason…

Romans 2: 1-4

You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. So when you, a mere man, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God’s judgment?
Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God’s kindness leads you toward repentance?

Both my critics claim to have knowledge of Greek and one claims to teach Greek and Hebrew… Yet neither can read plain English! I believe the scripture… I see it for what it says and I fear for you on the last day! I pray for you daily so that God will reveal His Kindness and Love to you. I pray daily for you to receive the Mercy and Grace of this awesome and wonderful God!

And you still mocked me.

So, what do I do? I will continue to Live for Christ.. Let Him be my very life and continue to preach and teach Jesus as I have come to know Him… He is my Lord, Savior, King, Teacher, Friend, and Brother. (Don’t those words seem a little relational to you?)

My only appeal is to not let your reasoning, and propositions (which I do not deny but need to be in proper perspective in relation to Jesus) get in the way of the Person of Jesus.

As far as the caricature that you have drawn of me and others… I forgive you and will continue to as Jesus said to… so receive it or reject it… that is oft the proof of the condition of your heart not mine.

Blessings,
iggy

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Setting things straight that some seem bent to lie about

Setting things straight that some seem bent to lie about.

(Update: Even after pointing out that Phil was lying about John and myself, he continues to spread the lie that John was “losing his church”. In fact the TRUTH is John is still going strong and has even expanded into a noew facility… but really Phil does not hold truth that important if he lies about people as he does. John 8:44 Jan 18, 2007)


I just finished talking to John O’Keefe of Ginkworld and of 247 connection in North Carolina.

In another blog it was stated that John was:

“Praise Part: When visiting theooze.com earlier today to research Spencer Burke, I accidentally learned that O’Keefe, who glorifies homosexuality, Communism, the drug culture, and still wants to be respected as a Southern Baptist pastor, is looking to move back to California. He evidently is losing his church or something of that sort. Thank God for that.” Phil Perkins


I chatted with john a bit and had to ask him about this ( which is sad that someone would gloat over a churches failure!) Yet it is not so as usual from the source that stated this. In fact it is a bold face lie… If you really read (Wednesday, October 18) what John is saying it is not about “losing his church” rather it is about asking for prayer and options! It seems as while some will kick people while they are down, John is seeking the high road. John is not saying part of the why at all here on this blog John is seeking God’s guidance and friendly advice… and what is wrong with that?

John is not “losing his church”. John is looking out for his congregation. In fact it is honorable what John is considering as many of the pastors I know would even consider stepping down. And for what reason is John “thinking” about stepping down?

iggy 14u: I hope that all is well there @247
iggy 14u: Been praying for you….
john okeefe: going ok – we are just so tight with funds, it might be better if they did not have to pay me
john okeefe: thanks
iggy 14u: Things have been going pretty good here since we hooked up with the Vineyard.
john okeefe: sweet
iggy 14u: I am on the leadership team as an intern…
john okeefe: very cool
iggy 14u: We are moving into our first building… next Wed.
john okeefe: very cool – so things are going great – sweet, that is good to hear
iggy 14u: Hey, I heard the rumor from someone “gloating” over your “failure”… It just made me angry…
iggy 14u: I wanted to know from the source…
iggy 14u: I hope all works out there as, but i know that if God moves you back it is in His will and timing… not your critics!
john okeefe: lol – no failure at all just thinking about what is best for this community of faith –


I think the last statement speaks volumes to the integrity of the man.

It seems Phil Perkins is loose and a bit creative with facts… and quick to judge something then write about what he does not even really grasp…

I am not out to get Phil, I just am standing up for a friend, who grasps the love of Jesus and is praying about making the best choice for the flock God has given him. This is not failure… it is picture of sacrificial love a picture of Jesus.

As I read over Phil’s blog, I wonder… does he ever pray for any of us? Or is he just happy to spread rumors and slander… I won’t judge his heart, but I have my doubts.

On the other side I have always found John O’Keefe one who uplifts and edifies others. He has always been there for me as a friend…

Blessings,
iggy

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Setting things straight that some seem bent to lie about

Setting things straight that some seem bent to lie about.

(Update: Even after pointing out that Phil was lying about John and myself, he continues to spread the lie that John was “losing his church”. In fact the TRUTH is John is still going strong and has even expanded into a noew facility… but really Phil does not hold truth that important if he lies about people as he does. John 8:44 Jan 18, 2007)


I just finished talking to John O’Keefe of Ginkworld and of 247 connection in North Carolina.

In another blog it was stated that John was:

“Praise Part: When visiting theooze.com earlier today to research Spencer Burke, I accidentally learned that O’Keefe, who glorifies homosexuality, Communism, the drug culture, and still wants to be respected as a Southern Baptist pastor, is looking to move back to California. He evidently is losing his church or something of that sort. Thank God for that.” Phil Perkins


I chatted with john a bit and had to ask him about this ( which is sad that someone would gloat over a churches failure!) Yet it is not so as usual from the source that stated this. In fact it is a bold face lie… If you really read (Wednesday, October 18) what John is saying it is not about “losing his church” rather it is about asking for prayer and options! It seems as while some will kick people while they are down, John is seeking the high road. John is not saying part of the why at all here on this blog John is seeking God’s guidance and friendly advice… and what is wrong with that?

John is not “losing his church”. John is looking out for his congregation. In fact it is honorable what John is considering as many of the pastors I know would even consider stepping down. And for what reason is John “thinking” about stepping down?

iggy 14u: I hope that all is well there @247
iggy 14u: Been praying for you….
john okeefe: going ok – we are just so tight with funds, it might be better if they did not have to pay me
john okeefe: thanks
iggy 14u: Things have been going pretty good here since we hooked up with the Vineyard.
john okeefe: sweet
iggy 14u: I am on the leadership team as an intern…
john okeefe: very cool
iggy 14u: We are moving into our first building… next Wed.
john okeefe: very cool – so things are going great – sweet, that is good to hear
iggy 14u: Hey, I heard the rumor from someone “gloating” over your “failure”… It just made me angry…
iggy 14u: I wanted to know from the source…
iggy 14u: I hope all works out there as, but i know that if God moves you back it is in His will and timing… not your critics!
john okeefe: lol – no failure at all just thinking about what is best for this community of faith –


I think the last statement speaks volumes to the integrity of the man.

It seems Phil Perkins is loose and a bit creative with facts… and quick to judge something then write about what he does not even really grasp…

I am not out to get Phil, I just am standing up for a friend, who grasps the love of Jesus and is praying about making the best choice for the flock God has given him. This is not failure… it is picture of sacrificial love a picture of Jesus.

As I read over Phil’s blog, I wonder… does he ever pray for any of us? Or is he just happy to spread rumors and slander… I won’t judge his heart, but I have my doubts.

On the other side I have always found John O’Keefe one who uplifts and edifies others. He has always been there for me as a friend…

Blessings,
iggy

---

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This passage states emphatically Jesus is the Truth! John 17:17

Boxing Kitten

This passage states emphatically Jesus is the Truth! John 17:17

John 17:17. Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth.

In an article that is really not very good, a certain Gregory Koukl, tries to show that the emerging church is teaching a lie, or I will give him this, a half truth…

He seems to think that in this passage that Jesus is saying that God’s word is truth… meaning from his misunderstanding of that the word “word” in this passage actually says in Greek, that it must mean something other than Jesus Himself. My bet he thinks it is “scripture”… again, it does not.

In the Greek in John 1 the Word for “Word” is Logos, if one just take a second to look this passage above in the Greek… it is Logos… so Jesus states, “Sanctify them by the truth; your word (Logos) is truth”. So what Mr. Koukl is actually doing is denying Jesus is the “Logos” that John carefully sets up in the very first sentence of this same Gospel… talk about a convoluted argument! What the issue is, is that Mr. Koukl is denying the Trinity in this article… for Jesus is the incarnation of the Godhead… the God made flesh… or Logos, He was also the written word of God…. Or Torah. God is Spirit, yes, and he came and dwelt amongst us… and we did not see Him for who He was, nor do some see Him for Who He still is…

God with us… made flesh.

I will and have always proclaimed the Risen Jesus as Lord, Saviour and the Logos… the One through Whom all creation came. Jesus is not just words on a page in a bible… that just teaches us by propositions to live a good lives, He is Alive and now indwells those who believe on Him… and Lives His Life in and through those believers…

Phillippians 2: 12-13. Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed–not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence–continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose.

It is by the work of God in us and through us that we are perfected in the faith… It is the Life lived (Jesus’), not living a good life. We do believe that propositional truth plays a part in our faith… as all TRUTH comes form the source of all TRUTH and that is Jesus… funny that these modernist can’t grasp that in it’s simplicity! What they are in fact promoting is humanism… plain and simple. It is the belief that man is able to “based on the ability to determine right and wrong by appeal to universal human qualities—particularly rationalism” . None of this affirms the teachings of Scripture… in fact cuts across the very grain of man being a fallen creature. I see that the one good thing about postmodernism is that it has the calling to remind modernists that we are in a fallen world… and that secular enlightenment is a false system of belief that man can reason himself out of the wages of sin… which is death. This is in fact teaching that man can save himself apart from Christ Jesus.

I live the Life of Christ and not my own… I do not live by just understanding propositions apart from Christ. You cannot separate the Life of Christ from Truth. You can not learn by human reasoning your way to heaven, but only by surrendering to the Life of Christ and letting God make you a New Creation… empowered by His Spirit, and living by the Eternal Life and power of the Resurrected Savoir Who is Jesus… Who is TRUTH incarnate. To deny that is to deny the very foundation of the Christian faith.

Blessings,
iggy

---

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This passage states emphatically Jesus is the Truth! John 17:17

Boxing Kitten

This passage states emphatically Jesus is the Truth! John 17:17

John 17:17. Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth.

In an article that is really not very good, a certain Gregory Koukl, tries to show that the emerging church is teaching a lie, or I will give him this, a half truth…

He seems to think that in this passage that Jesus is saying that God’s word is truth… meaning from his misunderstanding of that the word “word” in this passage actually says in Greek, that it must mean something other than Jesus Himself. My bet he thinks it is “scripture”… again, it does not.

In the Greek in John 1 the Word for “Word” is Logos, if one just take a second to look this passage above in the Greek… it is Logos… so Jesus states, “Sanctify them by the truth; your word (Logos) is truth”. So what Mr. Koukl is actually doing is denying Jesus is the “Logos” that John carefully sets up in the very first sentence of this same Gospel… talk about a convoluted argument! What the issue is, is that Mr. Koukl is denying the Trinity in this article… for Jesus is the incarnation of the Godhead… the God made flesh… or Logos, He was also the written word of God…. Or Torah. God is Spirit, yes, and he came and dwelt amongst us… and we did not see Him for who He was, nor do some see Him for Who He still is…

God with us… made flesh.

I will and have always proclaimed the Risen Jesus as Lord, Saviour and the Logos… the One through Whom all creation came. Jesus is not just words on a page in a bible… that just teaches us by propositions to live a good lives, He is Alive and now indwells those who believe on Him… and Lives His Life in and through those believers…

Phillippians 2: 12-13. Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed–not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence–continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose.

It is by the work of God in us and through us that we are perfected in the faith… It is the Life lived (Jesus’), not living a good life. We do believe that propositional truth plays a part in our faith… as all TRUTH comes form the source of all TRUTH and that is Jesus… funny that these modernist can’t grasp that in it’s simplicity! What they are in fact promoting is humanism… plain and simple. It is the belief that man is able to “based on the ability to determine right and wrong by appeal to universal human qualities—particularly rationalism” . None of this affirms the teachings of Scripture… in fact cuts across the very grain of man being a fallen creature. I see that the one good thing about postmodernism is that it has the calling to remind modernists that we are in a fallen world… and that secular enlightenment is a false system of belief that man can reason himself out of the wages of sin… which is death. This is in fact teaching that man can save himself apart from Christ Jesus.

I live the Life of Christ and not my own… I do not live by just understanding propositions apart from Christ. You cannot separate the Life of Christ from Truth. You can not learn by human reasoning your way to heaven, but only by surrendering to the Life of Christ and letting God make you a New Creation… empowered by His Spirit, and living by the Eternal Life and power of the Resurrected Savoir Who is Jesus… Who is TRUTH incarnate. To deny that is to deny the very foundation of the Christian faith.

Blessings,
iggy

---

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