Archive for May, 2006

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Why propositional truth is not Biblical Truth

May 23, 2006

Why propositional truth is not Biblical Truth

(Note: I do think what is written is valid, though I have reconsidered that the title is a bit misleading… or could have been better. In that I would rename this; “Is your faith based on propositional truth or on Christ”. Otherwise I will leave it the same. 6/27/06)

In some recent discussions I found some that do not understand as to why many of us do not think much of propositional truth. First off as I have said before Truth is a Person… Jesus Himself.

The issue then is that some say that we are saying propositional truth is a farce, miss this nuance.

  • Propositional truth is only true “relative” to the situation.
  • Iggy loves cheese cake he often says, “I would never miss out on cheesecake!”
  • Iggy has the flue and feels like he is dying…. He is offered cheese cake and turns it down.

Both situations are “true”, I do love cheese cake and would never turn it down… thus my wonderful once stealthy body is no more!

Yet, in the situation of being sick, I do not care for much except to get better and the last thing I want is to throw up cheese cake!

What I am saying is that we can only say what is true, from our own knowledge perspective… which means that if we do not know everything there is to know we are missing something… which means we can not have true propositional truth as it is perverted by our experience and limitations as human beings…

Now saying that, God is in a very good position for not only having this “knowledge”, for He is That Knowledge itself in the person of Jesus!

To further this point, if someone thinks they have all truth wrapped up and believe they know all things, they are either God Himself, or insane…. Or at least very deceived.

To defend the position that we can come to knowledge of truth out side of Christ is a dangerous thing. If one believes in total depravity, and also claims to believe in propositional truth, they are in trouble as being a corrupt and fallen creature, we would filter that pure truth and pervert it by the fact we are totally depraved! If you are not a Calvinist, being that “all have sinned” there may have been a time that we could receive truth in it’s pure form, and that is called innocence, yet, the scripture says ALL have sinned and fallen short the Glory of God! So even if innocence could be carried to the farthest extreme, we do fall, and in that no longer can see truth in it’s purity as we are now clouded in shame. Bonhoeffer calls this “disunion”. At the fall we became divided, we are between “self concealment, and self revelation” or “Between solitude and fellowship”… which is as he defines… shame.

In the state of shame we can not see things as they really are. That is why I sometime rail against a shame based faith for it clouds us from the Truth (Jesus). Only in Jesus do we have no shame. Only in the state of restored union can we then by our relationship with Christ Jesus, get to know Truth as we get to know Him.

Blessings,
iggy

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h1

Why propositional truth is not Biblical Truth

May 23, 2006

Why propositional truth is not Biblical Truth

(Note: I do think what is written is valid, though I have reconsidered that the title is a bit misleading… or could have been better. In that I would rename this; “Is your faith based on propositional truth or on Christ”. Otherwise I will leave it the same. 6/27/06)

In some recent discussions I found some that do not understand as to why many of us do not think much of propositional truth. First off as I have said before Truth is a Person… Jesus Himself.

The issue then is that some say that we are saying propositional truth is a farce, miss this nuance.

  • Propositional truth is only true “relative” to the situation.
  • Iggy loves cheese cake he often says, “I would never miss out on cheesecake!”
  • Iggy has the flue and feels like he is dying…. He is offered cheese cake and turns it down.

Both situations are “true”, I do love cheese cake and would never turn it down… thus my wonderful once stealthy body is no more!

Yet, in the situation of being sick, I do not care for much except to get better and the last thing I want is to throw up cheese cake!

What I am saying is that we can only say what is true, from our own knowledge perspective… which means that if we do not know everything there is to know we are missing something… which means we can not have true propositional truth as it is perverted by our experience and limitations as human beings…

Now saying that, God is in a very good position for not only having this “knowledge”, for He is That Knowledge itself in the person of Jesus!

To further this point, if someone thinks they have all truth wrapped up and believe they know all things, they are either God Himself, or insane…. Or at least very deceived.

To defend the position that we can come to knowledge of truth out side of Christ is a dangerous thing. If one believes in total depravity, and also claims to believe in propositional truth, they are in trouble as being a corrupt and fallen creature, we would filter that pure truth and pervert it by the fact we are totally depraved! If you are not a Calvinist, being that “all have sinned” there may have been a time that we could receive truth in it’s pure form, and that is called innocence, yet, the scripture says ALL have sinned and fallen short the Glory of God! So even if innocence could be carried to the farthest extreme, we do fall, and in that no longer can see truth in it’s purity as we are now clouded in shame. Bonhoeffer calls this “disunion”. At the fall we became divided, we are between “self concealment, and self revelation” or “Between solitude and fellowship”… which is as he defines… shame.

In the state of shame we can not see things as they really are. That is why I sometime rail against a shame based faith for it clouds us from the Truth (Jesus). Only in Jesus do we have no shame. Only in the state of restored union can we then by our relationship with Christ Jesus, get to know Truth as we get to know Him.

Blessings,
iggy

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Do you live by doctrine or the Life of Christ?

May 22, 2006

Do you live by doctrine or the Life of Christ?

Colossians 2:20. Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules:
21. “Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”?
22. These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings. 23. Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence. NIV

I have been to so many churches that teach “principles”. They claim them to be godly, yet often I wondered if that was so. Many also push “belief”, which in and of itself has nothing wrong as we are to believe in Christ. Yet, again, so many place such high importance on “believing” as in “Keeping good doctrine.” I wonder if they have come to Christ at all. You see, I know of no doctrine that became a man, lived a perfect life, then died in my place by being nailed to a cross…. Nope I have searched the scripture for years and have not found a doctrine that had done that! LOL!

The Pharisees of Jesus day had perfect doctrine. They kept the rules like you would not have believed. They were as perfect about these doctrines as one could be… and you know what? Jesus was not impressed one bit. In fact He said things like, “Vipers!” “Whitewashed tombs!”, “You teach other’s to be twice a fit for hell as you are yourself!”

I think one might see Jesus was not fond of those who put doctrine before God!

Recently we had a talk to a young person who was excited to “get out of the house in nine months.” She was turning 18 and wanted to get out because her parents were a bit strict on the dress code. Now, I think that the parents have done a great job, with what they know, but she could not show her shoulders and had to wear a skirt well below her knees. Again, nothing wrong, except these rules never entered her heart. They never cleaned the inside of the cup so to say…. It only appeared to be clean on the outside. That is what Paul means here in verse “23. Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.” Why? Paul already told us in verse “22: … because they are based on human commands and teachings.”

When I say I do not see being right as that important this is what I am saying… what if my “righteousness” which what being right means, is all about me being self righteous and not about walking in the righteousness of Christ, which is our only True Righteousness. Modernists do not get that because they base their thinking on man’s reasoning and not the bible…. Or worse they have placed their beloved doctrine above God. They then depend on their own reasoning and not as the scripture tells us, “Ephesians 1:16. I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers.
17. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better.
18. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you…” It goes on about “believing in Christ, As He is raised and seated in righteousness…

Yet, did you notice? It is not our mind or reasoning or knowledge that Paul prayed for, but the Spirit of Wisdom and Revelation….Why? To know Jesus better…. Not to know doctrine better!

Now, again I am not against doctrine, I am trying to help us get a perspective on “sound doctrine”. As Paul told Timothy in 1 Tim 1: 8. We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. 9. We also know that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10. for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers–and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11. that conforms to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.

The Law has its use… if used properly, which I will write more on at another time. Yet, the sound doctrine conforms to the Gospel and that Gospel is the Good News of Jesus’ Resurrection! That Jesus was raise from the dead and I will be also! So many stop at forgiveness, which is what the cross was about… yet the Gospel is about the Life of Christ…. Or the Resurrection! If one takes time to read in the Acts what was taught… you would see that it was not the cross that was proclaimed, but the resurrection. That Jesus was raised from the dead…..

Acts 4

1. The priests and the captain of the temple guard and the Sadducees came up to Peter and John while they were speaking to the people.
2. They were greatly disturbed because the apostles were teaching the people and proclaiming in Jesus the resurrection of the dead.

This is just one of many verses that back this up. The cross was only part of the Good News, but the Resurrection was the Good News!

Christianity is not about doctrines, rules or principles… The Gospel is about New Life and freedom to grow in the knowledge and Grace of Jesus Christ, those that think it is about anything else are as Paul states in “Col 2: 16. Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.
18. Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions.
19. He has lost connection with the Head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.

I do not want to lose connection with the Head! I want to walk in relationship with the Person of Christ… not live second hand by doctrines of man that can not save me.

Blessings,
iggy

h1

Do you live by doctrine or the Life of Christ?

May 22, 2006

Do you live by doctrine or the Life of Christ?

Colossians 2:20. Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules:
21. “Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”?
22. These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings. 23. Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence. NIV

I have been to so many churches that teach “principles”. They claim them to be godly, yet often I wondered if that was so. Many also push “belief”, which in and of itself has nothing wrong as we are to believe in Christ. Yet, again, so many place such high importance on “believing” as in “Keeping good doctrine.” I wonder if they have come to Christ at all. You see, I know of no doctrine that became a man, lived a perfect life, then died in my place by being nailed to a cross…. Nope I have searched the scripture for years and have not found a doctrine that had done that! LOL!

The Pharisees of Jesus day had perfect doctrine. They kept the rules like you would not have believed. They were as perfect about these doctrines as one could be… and you know what? Jesus was not impressed one bit. In fact He said things like, “Vipers!” “Whitewashed tombs!”, “You teach other’s to be twice a fit for hell as you are yourself!”

I think one might see Jesus was not fond of those who put doctrine before God!

Recently we had a talk to a young person who was excited to “get out of the house in nine months.” She was turning 18 and wanted to get out because her parents were a bit strict on the dress code. Now, I think that the parents have done a great job, with what they know, but she could not show her shoulders and had to wear a skirt well below her knees. Again, nothing wrong, except these rules never entered her heart. They never cleaned the inside of the cup so to say…. It only appeared to be clean on the outside. That is what Paul means here in verse “23. Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.” Why? Paul already told us in verse “22: … because they are based on human commands and teachings.”

When I say I do not see being right as that important this is what I am saying… what if my “righteousness” which what being right means, is all about me being self righteous and not about walking in the righteousness of Christ, which is our only True Righteousness. Modernists do not get that because they base their thinking on man’s reasoning and not the bible…. Or worse they have placed their beloved doctrine above God. They then depend on their own reasoning and not as the scripture tells us, “Ephesians 1:16. I have not stopped giving thanks for you, remembering you in my prayers.
17. I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better.
18. I pray also that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you…” It goes on about “believing in Christ, As He is raised and seated in righteousness…

Yet, did you notice? It is not our mind or reasoning or knowledge that Paul prayed for, but the Spirit of Wisdom and Revelation….Why? To know Jesus better…. Not to know doctrine better!

Now, again I am not against doctrine, I am trying to help us get a perspective on “sound doctrine”. As Paul told Timothy in 1 Tim 1: 8. We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. 9. We also know that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10. for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers–and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11. that conforms to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.

The Law has its use… if used properly, which I will write more on at another time. Yet, the sound doctrine conforms to the Gospel and that Gospel is the Good News of Jesus’ Resurrection! That Jesus was raise from the dead and I will be also! So many stop at forgiveness, which is what the cross was about… yet the Gospel is about the Life of Christ…. Or the Resurrection! If one takes time to read in the Acts what was taught… you would see that it was not the cross that was proclaimed, but the resurrection. That Jesus was raised from the dead…..

Acts 4

1. The priests and the captain of the temple guard and the Sadducees came up to Peter and John while they were speaking to the people.
2. They were greatly disturbed because the apostles were teaching the people and proclaiming in Jesus the resurrection of the dead.

This is just one of many verses that back this up. The cross was only part of the Good News, but the Resurrection was the Good News!

Christianity is not about doctrines, rules or principles… The Gospel is about New Life and freedom to grow in the knowledge and Grace of Jesus Christ, those that think it is about anything else are as Paul states in “Col 2: 16. Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.
18. Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions.
19. He has lost connection with the Head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.

I do not want to lose connection with the Head! I want to walk in relationship with the Person of Christ… not live second hand by doctrines of man that can not save me.

Blessings,
iggy

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A Google search that caught my eye

May 21, 2006

A Google search that caught my Eye

I look at my SiteMeter info at times and find some interesting searches that bring people to my blog. I had at one time around Resurrection Day (Easter), had 94 hits in one day! It turned out to be searches that were looking for a certain cartoon of a chicken that shoots out an egg and then says Happy Easter. I had posted it and though the link had broke many came and tried to access it through my blog.

I get many people from many nations. DNA seems very popular as a search. It seems that a post I did on “Whose DNA?” is still connected to a Google search of a picture of DNA I linked to. I get at least 5 a day through that search a day from all over the globe.

As far as readership I receive about 25 – 35 hits in a day…. Not bad for a little blog.

I will say this is the funniest search I have seen as of lately that had caught my eye.

“circumcision discussions in billings, mt”.

Unfortunately I had not written on circumcision… but rather it picked up on my discussion group on associate.com

Yet, there is much to say on the topic in the bible and maybe, soon I will do a post or series on circumcision…. In Billings MT. In that way it will be a Biblical topic that is relevant for today! LOL!

Blessings,
iggy

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A Google search that caught my eye

May 21, 2006

A Google search that caught my Eye

I look at my SiteMeter info at times and find some interesting searches that bring people to my blog. I had at one time around Resurrection Day (Easter), had 94 hits in one day! It turned out to be searches that were looking for a certain cartoon of a chicken that shoots out an egg and then says Happy Easter. I had posted it and though the link had broke many came and tried to access it through my blog.

I get many people from many nations. DNA seems very popular as a search. It seems that a post I did on “Whose DNA?” is still connected to a Google search of a picture of DNA I linked to. I get at least 5 a day through that search a day from all over the globe.

As far as readership I receive about 25 – 35 hits in a day…. Not bad for a little blog.

I will say this is the funniest search I have seen as of lately that had caught my eye.

“circumcision discussions in billings, mt”.

Unfortunately I had not written on circumcision… but rather it picked up on my discussion group on associate.com

Yet, there is much to say on the topic in the bible and maybe, soon I will do a post or series on circumcision…. In Billings MT. In that way it will be a Biblical topic that is relevant for today! LOL!

Blessings,
iggy

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Two Years of my Journey

May 16, 2006

Two Years of my Journey

This blog is two years old today. It has been a chronicle of my journey into the Postmodern/Emergent/emerging ideals. Though I have been a Child of God for many years, I feel as if I have just begun in many ways.

Sometimes I think I should go back and fix little errors in my blog… spellings, maybe clarify some of the thoughts a bit… Yet, mostly I have thought about some of the deconstruction and reconstruction of my theology and basic understandings of my faith in this postmodern world.

I decided long ago to leave the mistakes and to not go and change things that I may not even agree with today. It is and was and will continue to be my journey… right or wrong (tongue fully in cheek there). In the presence of some errors I have grown.

I thing that has changed was that I used to believe that after someone gave their free will to God, they could not take it up again… a small verse cleared that up… as I thought my understanding was pretty airtight. I still believe that we have a free will as the “righteous will live by faith” it takes an action… or response rather to God’s calling…. Then to lay that will in exchange for His good and perfect will. The verse in 1 Cor 7:37 tells us that we do have our own will. It is pretty clear. We have a will and it needs be set to be in the Righteousness of Christ. When we are in his Righteousness, then we can express in our life the goodness. In that “doing” the right this is based on goodness of God, and not our own understanding. This verse cleared up the thought we no longer have a will when we fully come to Christ as this man has “control over his own will”. Though we must still recognize that when we follow our own will and reasoning, are all but carrying a dead corpse around… this being our old self. This will must be subjected to the God’s good and perfect will and purpose for us.

1 Cor 7:37. But the man who has settled the matter in his own mind, who is under no compulsion but has control over his own will, and who has made up his mind not to marry the virgin–this man also does the right thing. NIV

Though there will always be a struggle… as the flesh though in itself not evil does lay us low in how we desire and want of fulfilling these desires. The flesh seeks pleasure and resists pain… God desires us to grow and in just experiencing pleasure and never being challenged in our faith by adversity, we tend to perish than grow. Through perseverance we are able to grow. I fully admit it is not fun to grow… just ask a child going through growing pains.

Yet, in these times we are shown the faithfulness and strength and most importantly God’s love as we depend on Him in these times.

Now, if this blog seems to misbehave, remember being two is a bit rough, just ask my son Fischer. In a way it is like a T shirt we bought him… it says, “I am 2 years old and there is nothing you can do about it.” I have much to learn and I am eager to do just that.

In that last month many of you have come to me with support and love. I am a bit overwhelmed… but know that it is the Love of God that has given this desire. In that I thank you for listening to His voice and reaching out to me.

This year has been really rough. I am not talking about those who seem to be coming to my blog and then go misquoting me spreading falsehoods. I really could care less and I see that there is a religious spirit alive today, just as when Jesus was alive. Saul thought himself a servant of righteousness while he persecuted the church. I have met others afflicted with this spirit of religion… for the Bible speaks of them this way.2 Cor 11: 13. For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. 14. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. 15. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve. NIV

People afflicted with this spirit need a ton of prayer. They need to have God break the bonds that blind them to their ways of hate… God needs to show them that hate is not a virtue, or a Christian value.

Now saying all that, the hard part was often also the best part as God called me to minister to others in times of trial and great sadness. To have had the honor of doing Kyler McNulty’s funeral ( He was 7 days short of his first birthday). To be there and experience the pain…. Which I never desire to have to again, yet, in that still seeing God reach through the pain and ministering to those around me through me. There is still much to do. Kyler’s mother opted to have her tubes tied at his birth… and has now decided to have it reversed. The doctors are sure it can be done, yet there will be a great financial cost to them. Then to actually conceive again. Even with that Kyler will not be forgotten. He is in my heart forever.

The other thing of this year was changing jobs. I wont bore you with the details but suffice it to say I am on call 24/7 and often work nights and days. Early on I was doing this 7 days a week for about the first 6 to 8 weeks. It is a good job, yet challenging. It has opened new possibilities for our family financially… yet often I yearn for more time to do ministry. I often fall back on a quote of Bob George, “Sometimes the most spiritual thing a man can do is support his family.” So for now, that is my main ministry.

Failure was another thing that hit me hard. To set aside my vision and dreams and even begin to question if I had heard from God or had been presumptuous. In that I have been opened to another dimension that quite frankly I have never fully explored. In that being the role of servant.

In letting go to my dream I have decided to be a servant to another’s vision to learn. This is most humbling as I am very opinionated and often I admit, judgmental. I am very picky in whom I will follow, let alone mentor me as I have had some experiences that were not the best early in my walk. I am turning over myself to God to serve the new Billings Vineyard Church plant. I pray that I can let go of “my” agenda and serve faithfully as God desires me to. I know that this will give me the experience I need to properly follow God’s vision in my own heart… in time… after God has released me from this job at hand. He is faithful and I know He will grow what He has planted in me, even if I am 88 before it happens.

Mostly in these 2 years I am thankful for the fellowship I have with many of you. To share prayers and hurts and fears with many of you. In this I know that we are all connected and part of the same Body. In that I see a Christ Himself on this earth building His Kingdom… one heart and one person at a time.
Blessings,
iggy


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