Archive for the ‘Heresay Hunters’ Category

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Tim, Ingrid and the Great Cover up.

January 2, 2008

Titus 2: 11-15

For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, while we wait for the blessed hope–the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good. These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you.

In a way I do not want to write this, yet after praying I realized that many of us need to speak out on this topic. It pains me as far as the examples I will use, yet I hope to give a real life presentation of the Gospel in action against the false teachings of some. One of the examples is a friend and I do not wish to bring any more pain to him so I hope that this will not add to his hurt, but lift him out of the pain of those who deem themselves as more worthy sinners than others.

Tim Reed is a good guy. I really enjoy his thoughts and have gained things from him. He is a pastor of Owasso Church of Christ. The first thing I want you to note is that I do not agree with Tim on some doctrinal issues, yet I see those issues as secondary to his faith in Christ so I focus on that instead of where we disagree.

Now, Tim loves to play some sort of “Fantasy” game which seems to include that one might become an evil dictator who wants to rule the world. Tim stated that he had played these games for many years before coming to Jesus.

Ingrid is a radio show host and “watchdoggie” blog. She likes to report on the failings of those she sees as heretics. Now, I agree with her on some things so this is not a total “I am against Ingrid” post. In fact, if I was to percentage out what she talks about, I would agree more with her than against her… yet she seems to think that all falls on the emerging church and is very vocal against those that have a differing “style” of worship ie, pastors should not wear jeans to preach in, churchs should have pews (though I understand she attends a house church) and music for worship can be performed by a secular choir, but not rock music by believers who desire to worship Jesus. So, my “beef” is that she confuses preference with God’s holiness and style with biblical mandates.

Now, my biggest issue with Online Discernment Ministries, (ODM’s) is that they often go way overboard in their zeal to expose and shame those they deemed as worse sinners as themselves. In this case Ingrid parsed through 1 and ½ years of posts to find one comment made by Tim (which I will not post here as it is very distasteful). Many of these comments were in defense against atheists who attacked him for his beliefs at the discussion forum, yet he made this one comment that later came back to haunt him.

Soon after Tim made the comment he was IM’d by a friend and the moderator who both rebuked Tim for his overboard comment. He saw his wrong and apologized to all offended parties and was forgiven by them.
Now, again 1 ½ years later, Ingrid finds times forgiven sins and resurrects them publically to shame Tim and expose him as one of the “new pastors today” she seems to dispise.

Now, remember Tim does not deny he stated the things Ingrid posted… and he does show remorse and did all he could to make it right with the people around him. He even went so far as to create a new story line for himself in the game so he would nto be so evil.

1. Tim sinned.
2. Tim was rebuked.
3. Tim repented.
4. Tim was forgiven.
5. All was well with the world again.

Tim later, (after the post at SoL), deleted his account where Ingrid quoted him as supporters at SoL were attacking those at the forum and judging and condemning them. He openly admits to all this.

Then came Ingrid who even after reading all the facts having already stated Tim to be one of the “enemies of Jesus Christ”, states he is being “deceptive”.

Here is Tim’s side if you want to read it.

As far as living out the obedience to Jesus by forgiving others as He commanded, Ingrid seems to think that is not a command that applies to her.

Forgiveness is not part of the ODM’s doctrine when it comes to those they hate. I am sorry, but out of all this I do not see these verses coming out of the ODM’s side at all.

“Forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.”

“Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, “Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?” Jesus answered, “I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.”
“So watch yourselves. “If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him. If he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times comes back to you and says, `I repent,’ forgive him.”

I have heard the ODM’s state things as, “You redefine fundamentalist. You redefine pharisee You redefine salvation. You redefine Jesus and the Gospel. You are a credit to post-modern dogma. The Gospel is all about reconciliation and forgiveness. It is not an excuse to blow-off sin.” Yet, then miss the very opportunity to forgive the stated sin… but instead cast more self righteous stones at Tim or whoever.

Now, what motivates such people to hate others so much? I will not get into Ingrid’s or others motives, as they will be exposed by God in His due time. Yet, I have found from experience, both out of my life as one who would at one time cast stones without thought to giving forgiveness, and having received the stones from the ODM’s myself. They seem to express some sort of maturity yet seem to miss the core of the Gospel of Reconciliation. In fact these (again I include myself as I did this myself) mock the very Gospel they proclaim. I will add that a person who is inclined to cast stones often does not understand the forgivness and Grace of God as they trust their own works as the “back-up” if God’s grace is not sufficient for them after all.

Is sin forgiven? According to the bible there is not one doubt and without hesitation I must state yes! Yet, it seems that if one does not like a person, a religionist will not accept the “so called” offender repentance. In this lack of grasping the Gospel of reconciliation they give no reconciliation to the other and only mock God and the gospel as they leave the other in their sin.

I will state this about Tim; he did all that God required so no man (or woman) has a right to add to that. To those who dig up old dirt then use it to shame and “expose” others only expose that they know not Grace nor love the Kindness of God. They seek only to show how right they are in their own eyes. Such a person need be avoided for they shame the Gospel and count Jesus Blood as nothing. I see that often the very sins one notices in others is the type of sin we see in ourselves. If one is under the performance type faith and sees God as the “God Father” instead of God the Father, then they well view obedience as “payment” to keep their god happy. They deceive themselves as only Jesus pleased the Father and we all need be in Christ to also be pleasing to God. Without Jesus no one is pleasing to God. In that being the truth, no one can boast that they are more pleasing to God than another. That is called humility.

Tim is being accused of covering up his sins… he is not. I see though that some sin openly against their brothers and sisters in the role of being the Accuser of them. They then cover their own sin in a thin veil of self righteous prater that only drive more away from Jesus or more into a false gospel of works.

Tim has grown from this and sees the error of his ways… yet it seems that God teaching someone and freeing them of their past sins, is not enough for Ingrid and others. I see the Great Cover Up is about those who condone the sin of Ingrid, Ken and others as they slander and lie and continue to set a standard of righteouness that is not biblical and in fact cuts across the grain of the Gospel. If one though did repent and confess their sin, I for one would be fighting for a place in line to offer forgivness and a huge hug.
Not only is this so, butI would also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation. (Romans 5:11)

iggy

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Tim, Ingrid and the Great Cover up.

January 2, 2008

Titus 2: 11-15

For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, while we wait for the blessed hope–the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good. These, then, are the things you should teach. Encourage and rebuke with all authority. Do not let anyone despise you.

In a way I do not want to write this, yet after praying I realized that many of us need to speak out on this topic. It pains me as far as the examples I will use, yet I hope to give a real life presentation of the Gospel in action against the false teachings of some. One of the examples is a friend and I do not wish to bring any more pain to him so I hope that this will not add to his hurt, but lift him out of the pain of those who deem themselves as more worthy sinners than others.

Tim Reed is a good guy. I really enjoy his thoughts and have gained things from him. He is a pastor of Owasso Church of Christ. The first thing I want you to note is that I do not agree with Tim on some doctrinal issues, yet I see those issues as secondary to his faith in Christ so I focus on that instead of where we disagree.

Now, Tim loves to play some sort of “Fantasy” game which seems to include that one might become an evil dictator who wants to rule the world. Tim stated that he had played these games for many years before coming to Jesus.

Ingrid is a radio show host and “watchdoggie” blog. She likes to report on the failings of those she sees as heretics. Now, I agree with her on some things so this is not a total “I am against Ingrid” post. In fact, if I was to percentage out what she talks about, I would agree more with her than against her… yet she seems to think that all falls on the emerging church and is very vocal against those that have a differing “style” of worship ie, pastors should not wear jeans to preach in, churchs should have pews (though I understand she attends a house church) and music for worship can be performed by a secular choir, but not rock music by believers who desire to worship Jesus. So, my “beef” is that she confuses preference with God’s holiness and style with biblical mandates.

Now, my biggest issue with Online Discernment Ministries, (ODM’s) is that they often go way overboard in their zeal to expose and shame those they deemed as worse sinners as themselves. In this case Ingrid parsed through 1 and ½ years of posts to find one comment made by Tim (which I will not post here as it is very distasteful). Many of these comments were in defense against atheists who attacked him for his beliefs at the discussion forum, yet he made this one comment that later came back to haunt him.

Soon after Tim made the comment he was IM’d by a friend and the moderator who both rebuked Tim for his overboard comment. He saw his wrong and apologized to all offended parties and was forgiven by them.
Now, again 1 ½ years later, Ingrid finds times forgiven sins and resurrects them publically to shame Tim and expose him as one of the “new pastors today” she seems to dispise.

Now, remember Tim does not deny he stated the things Ingrid posted… and he does show remorse and did all he could to make it right with the people around him. He even went so far as to create a new story line for himself in the game so he would nto be so evil.

1. Tim sinned.
2. Tim was rebuked.
3. Tim repented.
4. Tim was forgiven.
5. All was well with the world again.

Tim later, (after the post at SoL), deleted his account where Ingrid quoted him as supporters at SoL were attacking those at the forum and judging and condemning them. He openly admits to all this.

Then came Ingrid who even after reading all the facts having already stated Tim to be one of the “enemies of Jesus Christ”, states he is being “deceptive”.

Here is Tim’s side if you want to read it.

As far as living out the obedience to Jesus by forgiving others as He commanded, Ingrid seems to think that is not a command that applies to her.

Forgiveness is not part of the ODM’s doctrine when it comes to those they hate. I am sorry, but out of all this I do not see these verses coming out of the ODM’s side at all.

“Forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.”

“Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, “Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?” Jesus answered, “I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.”
“So watch yourselves. “If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him. If he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times comes back to you and says, `I repent,’ forgive him.”

I have heard the ODM’s state things as, “You redefine fundamentalist. You redefine pharisee You redefine salvation. You redefine Jesus and the Gospel. You are a credit to post-modern dogma. The Gospel is all about reconciliation and forgiveness. It is not an excuse to blow-off sin.” Yet, then miss the very opportunity to forgive the stated sin… but instead cast more self righteous stones at Tim or whoever.

Now, what motivates such people to hate others so much? I will not get into Ingrid’s or others motives, as they will be exposed by God in His due time. Yet, I have found from experience, both out of my life as one who would at one time cast stones without thought to giving forgiveness, and having received the stones from the ODM’s myself. They seem to express some sort of maturity yet seem to miss the core of the Gospel of Reconciliation. In fact these (again I include myself as I did this myself) mock the very Gospel they proclaim. I will add that a person who is inclined to cast stones often does not understand the forgivness and Grace of God as they trust their own works as the “back-up” if God’s grace is not sufficient for them after all.

Is sin forgiven? According to the bible there is not one doubt and without hesitation I must state yes! Yet, it seems that if one does not like a person, a religionist will not accept the “so called” offender repentance. In this lack of grasping the Gospel of reconciliation they give no reconciliation to the other and only mock God and the gospel as they leave the other in their sin.

I will state this about Tim; he did all that God required so no man (or woman) has a right to add to that. To those who dig up old dirt then use it to shame and “expose” others only expose that they know not Grace nor love the Kindness of God. They seek only to show how right they are in their own eyes. Such a person need be avoided for they shame the Gospel and count Jesus Blood as nothing. I see that often the very sins one notices in others is the type of sin we see in ourselves. If one is under the performance type faith and sees God as the “God Father” instead of God the Father, then they well view obedience as “payment” to keep their god happy. They deceive themselves as only Jesus pleased the Father and we all need be in Christ to also be pleasing to God. Without Jesus no one is pleasing to God. In that being the truth, no one can boast that they are more pleasing to God than another. That is called humility.

Tim is being accused of covering up his sins… he is not. I see though that some sin openly against their brothers and sisters in the role of being the Accuser of them. They then cover their own sin in a thin veil of self righteous prater that only drive more away from Jesus or more into a false gospel of works.

Tim has grown from this and sees the error of his ways… yet it seems that God teaching someone and freeing them of their past sins, is not enough for Ingrid and others. I see the Great Cover Up is about those who condone the sin of Ingrid, Ken and others as they slander and lie and continue to set a standard of righteouness that is not biblical and in fact cuts across the grain of the Gospel. If one though did repent and confess their sin, I for one would be fighting for a place in line to offer forgivness and a huge hug.
Not only is this so, butI would also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation. (Romans 5:11)

iggy

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So Ken Silva… What is your beef with Tony Jones?

December 15, 2007
I am going to just ask this open question.
I have read much of Ken Silva’ “false” accusations against many… yet I am wondering what are the specific things Ken holds against Tony?
Now, if you use the “Tony used the “f” word… I will remind you Ken you used the headline,and the quote many more times than Tony has… and in fact I am on record as asking Tony to tame down his language… so let’s move on from that one.
Yet, how can you justify the name calling?
What are the facts behind these “names”… that make them so true?
I am holding this out so that you can state your case. So far I see these as slander and lies… but then, it seems you thrive on those things.
So, without making this all about me… let’s talk about Tony Jones… and all the facts (which seemed to become opinions as of late) that you have piling up against him.
iggy
Updated: This is an example of Ken’s “research” (now opinion) in which as usual he gives only half the story.
So Ken… about the lies and slander (I mean “opinions”) concerning Tony… I am still waiting for you to prove your lies and slander as Truth…
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So Ken Silva… What is your beef with Tony Jones?

December 15, 2007
I am going to just ask this open question.
I have read much of Ken Silva’ “false” accusations against many… yet I am wondering what are the specific things Ken holds against Tony?
Now, if you use the “Tony used the “f” word… I will remind you Ken you used the headline,and the quote many more times than Tony has… and in fact I am on record as asking Tony to tame down his language… so let’s move on from that one.
Yet, how can you justify the name calling?
What are the facts behind these “names”… that make them so true?
I am holding this out so that you can state your case. So far I see these as slander and lies… but then, it seems you thrive on those things.
So, without making this all about me… let’s talk about Tony Jones… and all the facts (which seemed to become opinions as of late) that you have piling up against him.
iggy
Updated: This is an example of Ken’s “research” (now opinion) in which as usual he gives only half the story.
So Ken… about the lies and slander (I mean “opinions”) concerning Tony… I am still waiting for you to prove your lies and slander as Truth…
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Ken Silva posts letter from Tony Jones’ wife. (updated)

December 13, 2007

Ken Silva is out of control… instead of actually truly dialoguing with people he shows how arrogant he is by posting this letter to his (so-called) readers as if he is defying those who oppose his lies.

It would be interesting if someone did sue him for defamation of character… though Ken would only declare “See, I told you they were not Christians” or “Oh how I am sooo persecuted.” Well mister pastor/teacher/guru/general editor/slanderer/liar/accuser of the brethren or what ever grand title fits, it seems that being a “so called” Christian has not stopped you from lying or slander… so in a way I hope they do sue you. Yet, I hope more they do not… I did notice Ken move from “facts” to “opinion” pretty fast! LOL!

To Whom it May Concern:

In the spirit of Christmas, I ask you to do the righteous thing and post this. Please post at once or don’t you all want anyone of your readers to think Tony Jones might be a regular nice Christian guy. You don’t have a place for people to comment on your web page. You do have a place to donate. How come? I think if you are going to slander my husband as a devil worshiper it would be prudent to provide an avenue for others to paint with a broader stroke.
Tony Jones, my husband of ten years, loves the Lord Jesus Christ Almighty. I am sorry that may be a bitter pill for your group to swallow but it is true. Our family aims to be the hands and feet of Jesus and strive daily to bring up our three children as disciples of Christ and we didn’t even have to “spank them hard” to do it as Dr. Dobson suggests. In fact, that is called child abuse.
Above our threshold before we leave the house is our family verse, “Be the light of the world.”
We both can love Jesus in different expressions and both work for good and to fulfill his kingdom here on earth. It can look very different and yet how dare you say you have the corner market on my Lord and Savior…No, we share Him. I can go to Ashtanga yoga, which I love and enjoy the benefits of the practice and at the same time can faithfully follow Jesus. I can walk a prayer labyrinth and have in my mind over and over, “Be still and know that I am.”
The sheer effrontery makes you look pretty ignorant, if you don’t mind me saying.
I usually don’t respond to such nonsense but this is the father of my children who I fell in love with as he was living amongst the poorest of the poor on the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation in South Dakota. Tony so authentically lived and worked among them that they gave him the highest honor of an Indian name: “He who takes others into his heart.”

Have you ever even met Tony? Come to our house in Minneapolis and sit in our kitchen and let us agree to follow Christ perhaps differently with differing outward expressions but no less faithfully following and hopefully maturing to love all humankind more and more.

Groups like this just reek of fear. That must not be not at all liberating to be in such a tight box. Don’t you think our Lord is bigger than that? He loves gays; you bet he does! He wants a gifted woman up front or in our church in the middle and delivering the Good News. Humans have limited God to what she can and cannot do. Emergent tries to re imagine the essence of following Christ in its purest form. Free from all the trappings of human fear.

May the Lord Jesus Christ touch you mightily today.

Come on, be different than just one of the many Emergent opponents that never takes me up on the invitation for dinner and a shared love of Christ and never posts my posts and never has a function for comments.

Merry Christmas because I am sure I won’t hear from you but if I do…good for you.

Julie McMahon Jones

Source one: Ken Silva

Source two: See the real Ken Silva and all his slanderous nastiness all in Bruce’s blog comments
Updated:
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Ken Silva posts letter from Tony Jones’ wife. (updated)

December 13, 2007

Ken Silva is out of control… instead of actually truly dialoguing with people he shows how arrogant he is by posting this letter to his (so-called) readers as if he is defying those who oppose his lies.

It would be interesting if someone did sue him for defamation of character… though Ken would only declare “See, I told you they were not Christians” or “Oh how I am sooo persecuted.” Well mister pastor/teacher/guru/general editor/slanderer/liar/accuser of the brethren or what ever grand title fits, it seems that being a “so called” Christian has not stopped you from lying or slander… so in a way I hope they do sue you. Yet, I hope more they do not… I did notice Ken move from “facts” to “opinion” pretty fast! LOL!

To Whom it May Concern:

In the spirit of Christmas, I ask you to do the righteous thing and post this. Please post at once or don’t you all want anyone of your readers to think Tony Jones might be a regular nice Christian guy. You don’t have a place for people to comment on your web page. You do have a place to donate. How come? I think if you are going to slander my husband as a devil worshiper it would be prudent to provide an avenue for others to paint with a broader stroke.
Tony Jones, my husband of ten years, loves the Lord Jesus Christ Almighty. I am sorry that may be a bitter pill for your group to swallow but it is true. Our family aims to be the hands and feet of Jesus and strive daily to bring up our three children as disciples of Christ and we didn’t even have to “spank them hard” to do it as Dr. Dobson suggests. In fact, that is called child abuse.
Above our threshold before we leave the house is our family verse, “Be the light of the world.”
We both can love Jesus in different expressions and both work for good and to fulfill his kingdom here on earth. It can look very different and yet how dare you say you have the corner market on my Lord and Savior…No, we share Him. I can go to Ashtanga yoga, which I love and enjoy the benefits of the practice and at the same time can faithfully follow Jesus. I can walk a prayer labyrinth and have in my mind over and over, “Be still and know that I am.”
The sheer effrontery makes you look pretty ignorant, if you don’t mind me saying.
I usually don’t respond to such nonsense but this is the father of my children who I fell in love with as he was living amongst the poorest of the poor on the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation in South Dakota. Tony so authentically lived and worked among them that they gave him the highest honor of an Indian name: “He who takes others into his heart.”

Have you ever even met Tony? Come to our house in Minneapolis and sit in our kitchen and let us agree to follow Christ perhaps differently with differing outward expressions but no less faithfully following and hopefully maturing to love all humankind more and more.

Groups like this just reek of fear. That must not be not at all liberating to be in such a tight box. Don’t you think our Lord is bigger than that? He loves gays; you bet he does! He wants a gifted woman up front or in our church in the middle and delivering the Good News. Humans have limited God to what she can and cannot do. Emergent tries to re imagine the essence of following Christ in its purest form. Free from all the trappings of human fear.

May the Lord Jesus Christ touch you mightily today.

Come on, be different than just one of the many Emergent opponents that never takes me up on the invitation for dinner and a shared love of Christ and never posts my posts and never has a function for comments.

Merry Christmas because I am sure I won’t hear from you but if I do…good for you.

Julie McMahon Jones

Source one: Ken Silva

Source two: See the real Ken Silva and all his slanderous nastiness all in Bruce’s blog comments
Updated:
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Jim Bublitz accuses me of slandering him?

November 15, 2007

Jim Bublitz has some sort of sick vendetta against me and I have found that he seems to follow me around slandering me!

Now, Jim has followed me to Justin Taylor’s blog over the Steve Camp attacking Mark Driscoll scandal and accused me of slandering him again!

And what was the slanderous thing I said that was so heinous?

In fact the only people I “fight” with, I stopped going to their sites, like Christian Research Network and oldtruth.com and such as there is no conversation and if there is one you must agree with them… or you are mocked and attacked. ~ iggy being sooo mean and slandering Jim Bublitz! LOL!

And this is what Jim Bublitz calls slander?

By his comments he confesses HE DOES FOLLOW ME AROUND AND SLANDER ME!

It’s not uncommon for me to get “Iggy is slandering you on XYZ blog” notices, and with his mention of me above, I have landed here. ~ Jim Bublitz

But, whatever… I guess it is because his truth is old and my truth is eternal… LOL!

I think it is because I did a series on “the religionist” (part 4)and it was too close to home!

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4

blessings,
iggy