Three Views Calvinism, Arminianism and "iggyism": or just some theological riffing

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I am fully aware that this is way over simplified… But for discussion…. any thoughts?

blessings,

iggy

	John CalvinFoundation laid by Augustine	John WesleyFoundation laid by Arminius	iggy Foundation laid by Irenaeus and The Bible
T	Total Depravity – Human beings are so affected by the negative consequences of original sin that they are incapable of being righteous, and are always and unchangeably sinful; human freedom is totally enslaved by sin so we can only choose evil.	Deprivation – Human beings are sinful and without God, incapable (deprived) on their own of being righteous; however, they are not irredeemably sinful and can be transformed by God’s grace; God’s prevenient grace restores to humanity the freedom of will.	Innocent until one sins – Man has a predisposition to sin. We have had our eyes open to see the difference between good and evil, given statutes and laws that step by step give us all the mercy and grace and forgiveness and blessings of God, yet have not the moral consistency to live it out.  All men eventually sin thus only by sacrifice of blood can man be forgiven.
U	Unconditional Election – Since human beings cannot choose for themselves, God by His eternal decree has chosen or elected some to be counted as righteous, without any conditions being placed on that election.	Conditional Election – God has chosen that all humanity be righteous by His grace, yet has called us to respond to that grace by exercising our God-restored human freedom as a condition of fulfilling election.	Conditional Election modified– All have been forgiven once and for all through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. Yet, not all are saved. Man must lay down his free will as a living sacrifice and receive the Life of Christ Jesus in order to be saved. Once one has converted, he is predestined to be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ.
L	Limited Atonement – The effects of the Atonement, by which God forgave sinful humanity, are limited only to those whom He has chosen.	Unlimited Atonement – The effects of the Atonement are freely available to all those whom He has chosen, which includes all humanity, “whosoever will.”	Unlimited Atonement – Not only was the whosoever -will atoned for but the whole of creation. Except save the fallen Angels.
I	Irresistible Grace – The grace that God extends to human beings to effect their election cannot be refused, since it has been decreed by God.	Resistible Grace – God’s grace is free and offered without merit; however, human beings have been granted freedom by God and can refuse His grace.	Sustaining Grace – God’s grace sustains all creation. For if God so willed He could say, “no more” and nothing would exist. This is contrary to the character of God. There is the calling of the Holy Spirit or wooing, then the conversion. Conversion can be instant or may take a lifetime or be denied or forfeited, thus not accepting salvation and being later cast into the Lake of Fire.
P	Perseverance of the Saints – Since God has decreed the elect, and they cannot resist grace, they are unconditionally and eternally secure in that election.	Assurance and Security – There is security in God’s grace that allows assurance of salvation, but that security is in relation to continued faithfulness; we can still defiantly reject God.	Assurance and Eternal Security – Once one has gone through conversion he is no longer subject to this world, but is now subject to the works of Christ Jesus whose works are final and complete. No man can remove salvation from himself for it is not of himself as it is God’s salvation given to us by His Grace, through Faith in Jesus Christ

To sum it up, Calvinism denies that God is truly sovereign as He is subject to the system and is without a true free will. Armenianism puts too much on mans works to justify a person as only by the blood of Jesus are we justified and kept pure. It is not by works we are saved, nor is it by works our salvation is maintained, as it is God’s salvation given to us through His Grace, through faith in His Son. A bit of a disclaimer, I wrote this up about 5 years ago, and re-reading it I am not satisfied with some phrasing or ideas.

Limited Atonement: A humorous look

Thanks to Don Jobson aka Ben Currin for the laugh!

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Why I am not a Calvinist

First have some humor about the pictures will ya? It is not my fault how Calvinists are perceived!

Giving credit where it is due http://thedissidentblog.wordpress.com/2008/05/16/motivational-poster-calvinism/

I was a hard core Arminian, but when I found Grace (or God showed me His Grace) it screwed me up. I was told I was “Calvinist” in my ideas (Except for free will) and so I did some research on it. Of all people, James White convinced me I could not be a Calvinist… LOL! I think that is funny. It is not the gymnastics to make John 3:16 fit the theology that convinced me, it was that when I read the teachings of Calvinists… such as one is spiritually dead so they cannot hear God, and I read in Genesis where Adam not only hears God after eating the fruit, but (being spiritually dead) interacts with God… as well as Cain and many other “spiritually dead” individuals. I also could not get past how, if we are totally depraved, that God hands us over to a depraved mind as Romans teaches… How can a totally depraved person be more depraved? I ask these questions and get numerous answers, but all of them miss the point or are answered in a “double speak” that rivals Mormonism.

Now, don’t get me wrong, I read Calvin and have gained some great insight, yet what I see in his teachings see remote from modern day “TULIP” that defines Calvinism today.

I hold theology like water. Water does it job, it seeps in to place it should and should not go. It flows sweetly at times and at times is a tsunami… yet, I do not hold to theology like a brick wall that must be built to keep others out or myself restrained. That is religion… God wants a flowing relationship not a static reading to the living word. God wants to wrestle, fight, hate, argue, love, struggle, doubt, have certainty, trust, question, and most of all be honest with Him and in turn ourselves. To me, if a theology keeps God at bay or makes God too small then it may not be a good theology. Likewise though, there are some things I see that are straightforward in scripture… but then even those are up to debate by others… In a way, our relationship with God is like any other relationship… it has ups and downs but do be alive and to learn how to be fully human, to me, that is what it takes to learn how to love and trust God. The final thing about my theology is this. I am the sick one in need of a Dr. while God knows what is going on. He is God and I am not… and to me that is the start of understanding what the relationship is about.

As far as some “good” Calvinists… check out Steve Brown… for all my griping about Calvinists, there are a couple left out there who give me hope for the rest…

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Norman Geisler: Why I am not a 5 point Calvinist parts 8 – 9

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Norman Giesler: Why I am not a 5 Point Calvinist parts 5 – 7

http://www.youtube.com/user/AMomentOfTruth123
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Norman Geisler: Why I am not a 5 Point Calvinist parts 3 – 4

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Norman Geisler: Why I am not a 5 point Calvinist parts 1 and 2

http://www.youtube.com/user/AMomentOfTruth123

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One degree of seperation

I was thinking that there is only one degree of separation between a Calvinist and a Christian Universalist… and that is limited atonement. However both miss that we are not saved by the Cross but by the Resurrection. We are not saved by Jesus’ death, but by His Life imparted to us. If you equate forgiveness and salvation, you end up with error… and that is the error of both CU and Calvinists.

Calvin equated forgiveness and salvation, and in that saw the logical step of Universalism… yet could not accept Universalism so created Limited Atonement. Yet, if one understand that forgiveness was only part of the salvic equation, and that though one is forgiven, without the Life of Christ they are still dead. For the Life is in the Son. The living risen Son.

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Hilarious! I think my wife’s a Calvinist

Hilarious! I think my wife’s a Calvinist