Archive for October, 2007

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John Calvin and Spurgeon on Alcohol.

October 29, 2007

Here is a little food for thought…

‘And you shall bestow that money for whatsoever your soul lusts after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever your soul desires: and you shall eat there before the Lord your God, and you shall rejoice, and your household.’ ~ John Calvin teaching on Deuteronomy 14:26

It seems Calvin was not against alcohol, rather preached moderation. It seems that when a “Calvinist” states that all alcohol is wrong he is at odds with Calvin himself. Even more so if Calvin had been a Southern Baptist… oh well!

For that matter Charles Spurgeon would not make a good Southern Baptist today either…

“I neither said nor implied that it was sinful to drink wine; nay, I said that, in and by itself, this might be done without blame. But I remarked that, if I knew that another would be led to take it by my example, and this would lead them on to further drinking, and even to intoxication, then I would not touch it.” ~ Charles Spurgeon

Such is appeasing the flesh with its rules “Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”? (Colossians 2:20-23)

Be blessed,
iggy

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John Calvin and Spurgeon on Alcohol.

October 29, 2007

Here is a little food for thought…

‘And you shall bestow that money for whatsoever your soul lusts after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever your soul desires: and you shall eat there before the Lord your God, and you shall rejoice, and your household.’ ~ John Calvin teaching on Deuteronomy 14:26

It seems Calvin was not against alcohol, rather preached moderation. It seems that when a “Calvinist” states that all alcohol is wrong he is at odds with Calvin himself. Even more so if Calvin had been a Southern Baptist… oh well!

For that matter Charles Spurgeon would not make a good Southern Baptist today either…

“I neither said nor implied that it was sinful to drink wine; nay, I said that, in and by itself, this might be done without blame. But I remarked that, if I knew that another would be led to take it by my example, and this would lead them on to further drinking, and even to intoxication, then I would not touch it.” ~ Charles Spurgeon

Such is appeasing the flesh with its rules “Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”? (Colossians 2:20-23)

Be blessed,
iggy

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Does God “hate” people?

October 29, 2007

Does God “hate” people?

Every once in a while I run across those who teach how God hates mankind for their sin. I think this runs against the teachings that are clear as John 3:16 states “God so loved the world…” and many other verses about God’s unconditional love.

Yet, one verse that is often used is Psalms 5:5 which is rendered in the King James Bible
The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

Even the NIV states: 5. The arrogant cannot stand in your presence; you hate all who do wrong.

Now, this seems to be clear that God “hates” some people so I think we need a bit of perspective as to who is hated and how this is so.

One version I found rendered the verse this way:

Douay-Rheims Bible
Neither shall the wicked dwell near thee: nor shall the unjust abide before thy eyes.

Now, God hates sin. I think all agree that God hated sin so much He sent His Son who knew no sin to become sin for us… and in that as Jesus died on the Cross so did our sin.

Yet, there are those who dwell in injustice. They live their lives such that to bring hardship and injustice to others the do not know love. In a sense as harsh as this sounds, they have become less than human in their own devaluing of other humans. God hates iniquity, and that one would bring harm to others for their own pleasure shows that they are far from God and so God has turned them over to a depraved mind as Romans 1 teaches.

Now, can these be saved? Yes… undoubtedly. Yet, if one’s heart is so hardened that they cannot respond to God, then they will receive that due justice and penalty for their death.

Saying this, one must understand also that some place “God hates sinners” in a wrong context. They place this on those they deem are not keeping the Law, or even the standard of righteousness that they have declared as making one “worthy” of God’s grace. This is a travesty against God and His Grace as God has chosen even the worst of sinners to change and become sons of God.

In the OT if one was against God, as the Promise to Abraham states, “I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you.”, so those who oppose God or those He loves are dealt with because of that promise. The flip side is that the Gentiles were also to be blessed by Abraham as God promise to bless all Nations through Abraham.

Now, the issue is that if one is so proud or arrogant that they oppose God, then God will oppose them, though idea is resisting the proud and giving grace to the humble.

Yet, the promise that the Gentile was blessed was fulfilled by Jesus. So in that fulfillment, God sees all men only through Jesus and that all men “in Christ Jesus” are seen as if they are Jesus themselves for Jesus has become our righteousness and we the very righteousness of God, in Christ.

Things are changed. For even the Apostle Paul, while still Saul, violently opposed the Christians and proudly even stood by during the murder of Stephen. He asked for permission to go to other cities to destroy this “cult” called Christianity.

Yet, the Holy Spirit, which is God’s Spirit of Grace, (Heb 10:19) was poured out on all mankind on the Day of Pentecost. As this was the one thing that now opens all men to be able to turn to God, the only “sin” now that man will be judged by is what they have done or not done with Jesus. If they have not come to belief, they then will be dealt with by God on their own righteousness, and those who believe will have their name in the Lamb’s Book of Life.

In other words, we who believes will be spoken for by Jesus who is now our mediator.

God does hate sin, yet the issue is not whether mankind is held to Old Testament standards but whether man is held to New Testament standards. Does God resist the proud? Yes. Yet the issue is that as they resist Him, God turns them over to their own way. God has always given grace to the humble… yet the mark of true humility is the acceptance of Jesus and the rejection of our own way.

So, God now loves the sinner but hates the sin, He hated sin so much he sent His Son who knew no sin, to become sin… and as Jesus died on the Cross, Sin was judged and also died on the Cross.

Jesus now holds the Keys to death and Hades…

Romans 8:1 -14 speaks clearly of how sin and death are dealt with in the Believer and that the unbeliever still lives under the Law of sin and death and so will still experience death even though sin is dealt with.

“Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.
Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God. You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.

But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness. And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you.
Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation–but it is not to the sinful nature, to live according to it. For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live, because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.”

Now even though sin was dealt with if one still lives as if it was not, then they will die though their sins forgiven… for as 2 Corinthians states in chapter 5: 10-21

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad. Since, then, we know what it is to fear the Lord, we try to persuade men. What we are is plain to God, and I hope it is also plain to your conscience.
We are not trying to commend ourselves to you again, but are giving you an opportunity to take pride in us, so that you can answer those who take pride in what is seen rather than in what is in the heart. If we are out of our mind, it is for the sake of God; if we are in our right mind, it is for you. For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died. And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again. So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!
All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.
We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God. God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.”

The man that walks outside of reconciliation, and by the old nature of sin and death, will have to be judged according to the deeds done while in the body… yet so will those in Christ. Again the difference will be only in what they have done with Jesus. Accept Him and receive eternal life or having rejected Him will be tossed in the Lake of fire to be destroyed…

The Words of John should be a warning… John 3:35-36

“The Father loves the Son and has placed everything in his hands. Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on him. “

For God once judge men, but now men are judged by the words of Jesus…

John 12:47-50
“As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it. There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day. For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it. I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.”

Now those who do evil do not know love, and the way to know Love is to be Loved and God is Love. Love does not cause harm to others and will seek to do what is best for others. It is this love as 2 Cor 5:14-16 tells us “For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died. And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again. So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer.”

We no longer view one man evil and another righteous, rather that all men are sinners in need of reconciliation to God through Jesus. We now are compelled as true believers to Love others and motivate us to tell others they are reconciled at the Cross and are not able to receive eternal Life in Jesus.

Does God still hate sinners, not since Jesus died for them… yet some will still place themselves under the OT covenant with death, and receive that covenants rewards without Jesus. God’s wrath will be poured out on all that is not “in Christ”… and this world will be purged of all that is not of Christ Jesus… all that is not of Grace and Truth will perish and all that is of Grace and Truth will have eternal Life in Christ Jesus. Those who choose to not be in Christ will perish as they reject the One Way of Life or their own and in that be judged with all things not in Christ Jesus.

It is a hard word, but still it is not God Who now judges, but what one does with the Word of God and whether they accepted the Life of Christ or not.

A dead man needs Life… even a forgiven dead man still needs life… and the Life is in the Son.

The one who teaches that God still “hates the sinner” is teaching a mixture of Law and Grace and perverting the purity of Grace and the message of the New Testament…

Be blessed,
iggy

Update: I have been getting a lot of comments on this at Mychurch.com. And for my mychurch.com readers, there are some editing issues between blogger and mychurch.com where ? marks replace some of the punctuation… please go to my blog at blogger (link is below) to read it without the editing issues.
h1

Does God “hate” people?

October 29, 2007

Does God “hate” people?

Every once in a while I run across those who teach how God hates mankind for their sin. I think this runs against the teachings that are clear as John 3:16 states “God so loved the world…” and many other verses about God’s unconditional love.

Yet, one verse that is often used is Psalms 5:5 which is rendered in the King James Bible
The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

Even the NIV states: 5. The arrogant cannot stand in your presence; you hate all who do wrong.

Now, this seems to be clear that God “hates” some people so I think we need a bit of perspective as to who is hated and how this is so.

One version I found rendered the verse this way:

Douay-Rheims Bible
Neither shall the wicked dwell near thee: nor shall the unjust abide before thy eyes.

Now, God hates sin. I think all agree that God hated sin so much He sent His Son who knew no sin to become sin for us… and in that as Jesus died on the Cross so did our sin.

Yet, there are those who dwell in injustice. They live their lives such that to bring hardship and injustice to others the do not know love. In a sense as harsh as this sounds, they have become less than human in their own devaluing of other humans. God hates iniquity, and that one would bring harm to others for their own pleasure shows that they are far from God and so God has turned them over to a depraved mind as Romans 1 teaches.

Now, can these be saved? Yes… undoubtedly. Yet, if one’s heart is so hardened that they cannot respond to God, then they will receive that due justice and penalty for their death.

Saying this, one must understand also that some place “God hates sinners” in a wrong context. They place this on those they deem are not keeping the Law, or even the standard of righteousness that they have declared as making one “worthy” of God’s grace. This is a travesty against God and His Grace as God has chosen even the worst of sinners to change and become sons of God.

In the OT if one was against God, as the Promise to Abraham states, “I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you.”, so those who oppose God or those He loves are dealt with because of that promise. The flip side is that the Gentiles were also to be blessed by Abraham as God promise to bless all Nations through Abraham.

Now, the issue is that if one is so proud or arrogant that they oppose God, then God will oppose them, though idea is resisting the proud and giving grace to the humble.

Yet, the promise that the Gentile was blessed was fulfilled by Jesus. So in that fulfillment, God sees all men only through Jesus and that all men “in Christ Jesus” are seen as if they are Jesus themselves for Jesus has become our righteousness and we the very righteousness of God, in Christ.

Things are changed. For even the Apostle Paul, while still Saul, violently opposed the Christians and proudly even stood by during the murder of Stephen. He asked for permission to go to other cities to destroy this “cult” called Christianity.

Yet, the Holy Spirit, which is God’s Spirit of Grace, (Heb 10:19) was poured out on all mankind on the Day of Pentecost. As this was the one thing that now opens all men to be able to turn to God, the only “sin” now that man will be judged by is what they have done or not done with Jesus. If they have not come to belief, they then will be dealt with by God on their own righteousness, and those who believe will have their name in the Lamb’s Book of Life.

In other words, we who believes will be spoken for by Jesus who is now our mediator.

God does hate sin, yet the issue is not whether mankind is held to Old Testament standards but whether man is held to New Testament standards. Does God resist the proud? Yes. Yet the issue is that as they resist Him, God turns them over to their own way. God has always given grace to the humble… yet the mark of true humility is the acceptance of Jesus and the rejection of our own way.

So, God now loves the sinner but hates the sin, He hated sin so much he sent His Son who knew no sin, to become sin… and as Jesus died on the Cross, Sin was judged and also died on the Cross.

Jesus now holds the Keys to death and Hades…

Romans 8:1 -14 speaks clearly of how sin and death are dealt with in the Believer and that the unbeliever still lives under the Law of sin and death and so will still experience death even though sin is dealt with.

“Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.
Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God. You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.

But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness. And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you.
Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation–but it is not to the sinful nature, to live according to it. For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live, because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.”

Now even though sin was dealt with if one still lives as if it was not, then they will die though their sins forgiven… for as 2 Corinthians states in chapter 5: 10-21

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad. Since, then, we know what it is to fear the Lord, we try to persuade men. What we are is plain to God, and I hope it is also plain to your conscience.
We are not trying to commend ourselves to you again, but are giving you an opportunity to take pride in us, so that you can answer those who take pride in what is seen rather than in what is in the heart. If we are out of our mind, it is for the sake of God; if we are in our right mind, it is for you. For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died. And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again. So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!
All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.
We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God. God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.”

The man that walks outside of reconciliation, and by the old nature of sin and death, will have to be judged according to the deeds done while in the body… yet so will those in Christ. Again the difference will be only in what they have done with Jesus. Accept Him and receive eternal life or having rejected Him will be tossed in the Lake of fire to be destroyed…

The Words of John should be a warning… John 3:35-36

“The Father loves the Son and has placed everything in his hands. Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on him. “

For God once judge men, but now men are judged by the words of Jesus…

John 12:47-50
“As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it. There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day. For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it. I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.”

Now those who do evil do not know love, and the way to know Love is to be Loved and God is Love. Love does not cause harm to others and will seek to do what is best for others. It is this love as 2 Cor 5:14-16 tells us “For Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died. And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again. So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer.”

We no longer view one man evil and another righteous, rather that all men are sinners in need of reconciliation to God through Jesus. We now are compelled as true believers to Love others and motivate us to tell others they are reconciled at the Cross and are not able to receive eternal Life in Jesus.

Does God still hate sinners, not since Jesus died for them… yet some will still place themselves under the OT covenant with death, and receive that covenants rewards without Jesus. God’s wrath will be poured out on all that is not “in Christ”… and this world will be purged of all that is not of Christ Jesus… all that is not of Grace and Truth will perish and all that is of Grace and Truth will have eternal Life in Christ Jesus. Those who choose to not be in Christ will perish as they reject the One Way of Life or their own and in that be judged with all things not in Christ Jesus.

It is a hard word, but still it is not God Who now judges, but what one does with the Word of God and whether they accepted the Life of Christ or not.

A dead man needs Life… even a forgiven dead man still needs life… and the Life is in the Son.

The one who teaches that God still “hates the sinner” is teaching a mixture of Law and Grace and perverting the purity of Grace and the message of the New Testament…

Be blessed,
iggy

Update: I have been getting a lot of comments on this at Mychurch.com. And for my mychurch.com readers, there are some editing issues between blogger and mychurch.com where ? marks replace some of the punctuation… please go to my blog at blogger (link is below) to read it without the editing issues.
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Christoplatonism’s False Assumptions (against exaggerated matter-spirit dualism)

October 28, 2007

Here is a very interesting write up on how Platonist Dualism entered and has infused itself on to the Christian faith.

Here is an excerpt from the article.

“Platonic ideas began making inroads into Christian theology through the writings of Philo (ca. 20 BC–AD 50). An Alexandrian Jew, Philo admired Greek culture and was enamored with Plato’s philosophy. He was also proud of his Jewish heritage. In his desire to offer the Greeks the best of Judaism and the Jews the best of Greek philosophy, he allegorized Scripture. He did so in contrast to the literal interpretation of many rabbis.351

Philo’s ideas caught on. Alexandria became the home of a new school of theological thought. Clement of Alexandria (150–215), an early church father, was a part of this movement, as was Origen (185–254), an Egyptian-born Christian writer and teacher. Clement embraced Greek philosophy and maintained that Scripture must be understood allegorically. Origen developed an entire system of allegorizing Scripture. His method was to see the Bible as a three-part living organism, corresponding to body, soul, and spirit. The body was the literal or historical sense, the soul was the psychic or moral sense, and the spirit was—by far most important—the philosophical sense.”

The whole article is here.

Be blessed,
iggy

h1

Christoplatonism’s False Assumptions (against exaggerated matter-spirit dualism)

October 28, 2007

Here is a very interesting write up on how Platonist Dualism entered and has infused itself on to the Christian faith.

Here is an excerpt from the article.

“Platonic ideas began making inroads into Christian theology through the writings of Philo (ca. 20 BC–AD 50). An Alexandrian Jew, Philo admired Greek culture and was enamored with Plato’s philosophy. He was also proud of his Jewish heritage. In his desire to offer the Greeks the best of Judaism and the Jews the best of Greek philosophy, he allegorized Scripture. He did so in contrast to the literal interpretation of many rabbis.351

Philo’s ideas caught on. Alexandria became the home of a new school of theological thought. Clement of Alexandria (150–215), an early church father, was a part of this movement, as was Origen (185–254), an Egyptian-born Christian writer and teacher. Clement embraced Greek philosophy and maintained that Scripture must be understood allegorically. Origen developed an entire system of allegorizing Scripture. His method was to see the Bible as a three-part living organism, corresponding to body, soul, and spirit. The body was the literal or historical sense, the soul was the psychic or moral sense, and the spirit was—by far most important—the philosophical sense.”

The whole article is here.

Be blessed,
iggy

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A Different Perspective

October 28, 2007

A Different Perspective has some great thoughts from N.T. Wright… Alan Hartung is at Soularize and shared his thoughts on N.T.Wright.

Check out Soularize via FeedLive.

Be Blessed,
iggy