One subtle deception of John MacArthur: Bad Quotes

I am amazed that more people do not understand that Truth protects us… we do not protect truth.

John MacArthur states in his book The Truth War…

“It is our duty to guard, proclaim, and pass that truth on to the next generation.” [1 Timothy 6:20–21]

Now let’s go look at his reference.

“O Timothy! Guard what was committed to your trust, avoiding the profane and idle babblings and contradictions of what is falsely called knowledge— 21 by professing it some have strayed concerning the faith. Grace be with you. Amen.”

Note how subtle this is… but that is how Satan works!

Yes, Paul is stating to Timothy to “Guard what was committed to your trust..” but does Paul go on to say “go out and fight and expose those who attack truth.”? No.

Paul simply states to Timothy to guard Truth by, “avoiding the profane and idle babblings and contradictions of what is falsely called knowledge…”

Notice the word… “avoiding“. It does not nor has ever meant to declare war on others.

My Truth is the Person of Jesus Christ. I see that He protects me… I cannot do anything to protect Jesus for He is God and I am a mere man.

So, my question is this… What kind of god needs protecting? And if that god does, how can a finite man protect an Almighty, all powerful God?

It seems to me that John MacArthur has diminished God from Who He really is in this “truth war” and the more I learn of John MacArthur’s theology, the more I wonder if he thinks himself greater than God Himself…

One subtle deception of John MacArthur: Bad Quotes

I am amazed that more people do not understand that Truth protects us… we do not protect truth.

John MacArthur states in his book The Truth War…

“It is our duty to guard, proclaim, and pass that truth on to the next generation.” [1 Timothy 6:20–21]

Now let’s go look at his reference.

“O Timothy! Guard what was committed to your trust, avoiding the profane and idle babblings and contradictions of what is falsely called knowledge— 21 by professing it some have strayed concerning the faith. Grace be with you. Amen.”

Note how subtle this is… but that is how Satan works!

Yes, Paul is stating to Timothy to “Guard what was committed to your trust..” but does Paul go on to say “go out and fight and expose those who attack truth.”? No.

Paul simply states to Timothy to guard Truth by, “avoiding the profane and idle babblings and contradictions of what is falsely called knowledge…”

Notice the word… “avoiding“. It does not nor has ever meant to declare war on others.

My Truth is the Person of Jesus Christ. I see that He protects me… I cannot do anything to protect Jesus for He is God and I am a mere man.

So, my question is this… What kind of god needs protecting? And if that god does, how can a finite man protect an Almighty, all powerful God?

It seems to me that John MacArthur has diminished God from Who He really is in this “truth war” and the more I learn of John MacArthur’s theology, the more I wonder if he thinks himself greater than God Himself…

The accusations fly and the implode continues….

This article seem to not even need any comments it speaks volumes itself as to how far Ken and Crew will go to slander and lie.

Note: There are a few that are discussing and exploring Universalism… yet not the type that all get “saved” in the end… as even Spenser Burke states: “I am a universalist that believes in Hell”… which should be an indication he is not “that” type of universalist as in “all get saved in the end”. His view is that all are saved, unless you “opt out”.

I do not agree with him ( ~ emerging thought in Montana ~: Universalism: Why I do not agree) as I do not see that Spenser has built he case, nor did Scot McKnight (Jesus Creed » Heretic’s Guide to Eternity 4) and many, many others… Spenser is a voice, who still believes in Hell… so the statement, “and exposes his universalism and his panentheism only to be told that he doesn’t speak for Emergent.” is still not accurate… maybe “speaks within” out speaks as part of”.

My other point is what is to be made of the statement that Paul states about the gaol of God through Jesus as in 1 Cor 15:28 ” When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.” I think this verse sounds a little “panentheism” (What is panentheism?) I think there is a good case for the topic though I myself have not pursued that as a possibility.

The real issue is the insistent connection with the occult… it has become a sick obsession of Ken Silva. His statements like these are sadly what make him lose more and more credibility (if he had any);

“These words were written by Julie Clawson whose husband Mike was one of the planners of the Mideast Emergent “Gathering”, which by the way also happens to a term Wiccans use as well for their meetings.”

I guess anyone who “gathers” is now in league with Satan…

Acts 12:44. “On the next Sabbath almost the whole city gathered to hear the word of the Lord.”
Matthew 18:20. “For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.”

The logic is just not there unless Ken is saying…

Well that is the over simplicity of his allegations.

SO it seems the only whining ( And the Whining of the Emergent Church Continues…) that does continue is Kens is somehow shocked about the response to the slanderous posters of Phil Johnson… That they were more Christ-like than the attack could ever be. As Ken shows his nasty side by calling this article “hit piece”. (Motivation or Ridicule?) Yep, Julie Clawson is so vicious in her attack against Ken and Phil… LOL! It seems that Ken is opposed to anything that resemble Jesus Christ in action. I ma just wonder how Ken did not fit “semi-pelagian” in the article. Oh wait! He did! LOL!

Notice that Ken calls for fire from heaven?

“You see, “soon” it’s going to get mighty hot up in here…O Lord send us Thy fire…” ~Ken Silva

Maybe he needs reminded of the words of Jesus…

Luke 9: 54 – 56. “When the disciples James and John saw this, they asked, “Lord, do you want us to call fire down from heaven to destroy them ?” But Jesus turned and rebuked them, and they went to another village. “

Be blessed,
iggy

The accusations fly and the implode continues….

This article seem to not even need any comments it speaks volumes itself as to how far Ken and Crew will go to slander and lie.

Note: There are a few that are discussing and exploring Universalism… yet not the type that all get “saved” in the end… as even Spenser Burke states: “I am a universalist that believes in Hell”… which should be an indication he is not “that” type of universalist as in “all get saved in the end”. His view is that all are saved, unless you “opt out”.

I do not agree with him ( ~ emerging thought in Montana ~: Universalism: Why I do not agree) as I do not see that Spenser has built he case, nor did Scot McKnight (Jesus Creed » Heretic’s Guide to Eternity 4) and many, many others… Spenser is a voice, who still believes in Hell… so the statement, “and exposes his universalism and his panentheism only to be told that he doesn’t speak for Emergent.” is still not accurate… maybe “speaks within” out speaks as part of”.

My other point is what is to be made of the statement that Paul states about the gaol of God through Jesus as in 1 Cor 15:28 ” When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.” I think this verse sounds a little “panentheism” (What is panentheism?) I think there is a good case for the topic though I myself have not pursued that as a possibility.

The real issue is the insistent connection with the occult… it has become a sick obsession of Ken Silva. His statements like these are sadly what make him lose more and more credibility (if he had any);

“These words were written by Julie Clawson whose husband Mike was one of the planners of the Mideast Emergent “Gathering”, which by the way also happens to a term Wiccans use as well for their meetings.”

I guess anyone who “gathers” is now in league with Satan…

Acts 12:44. “On the next Sabbath almost the whole city gathered to hear the word of the Lord.”
Matthew 18:20. “For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.”

The logic is just not there unless Ken is saying…

Well that is the over simplicity of his allegations.

SO it seems the only whining ( And the Whining of the Emergent Church Continues…) that does continue is Kens is somehow shocked about the response to the slanderous posters of Phil Johnson… That they were more Christ-like than the attack could ever be. As Ken shows his nasty side by calling this article “hit piece”. (Motivation or Ridicule?) Yep, Julie Clawson is so vicious in her attack against Ken and Phil… LOL! It seems that Ken is opposed to anything that resemble Jesus Christ in action. I ma just wonder how Ken did not fit “semi-pelagian” in the article. Oh wait! He did! LOL!

Notice that Ken calls for fire from heaven?

“You see, “soon” it’s going to get mighty hot up in here…O Lord send us Thy fire…” ~Ken Silva

Maybe he needs reminded of the words of Jesus…

Luke 9: 54 – 56. “When the disciples James and John saw this, they asked, “Lord, do you want us to call fire down from heaven to destroy them ?” But Jesus turned and rebuked them, and they went to another village. “

Be blessed,
iggy

Slice of Laodicea is Rated…

This rating was determined based on the presence of the following words:

hell (3x)
dead (2x)
drugs (1x)

Soooooo, I just was thinking… what about blogs like SoL?

And just as I suspected… rated “PG”! So much for me being a dirty mouthed “emergent”.

LOL!
iggy

Slice of Laodicea is Rated…

This rating was determined based on the presence of the following words:

hell (3x)
dead (2x)
drugs (1x)

Soooooo, I just was thinking… what about blogs like SoL?

And just as I suspected… rated “PG”! So much for me being a dirty mouthed “emergent”.

LOL!
iggy

OK… if you think I have gone too far… then…

OK. If you think I have gone too far in something… most probably I have. I admit it! I am a frail creature who sometimes lets that worldly flesh get the better of me…

BUT PLEASE NOTE THIS:

My intention is not to just tear down anyone at CRN… but I hope to show that there is some really bad things going on there and if they are a part of it just saying, ” I didn’t write that so don’t hold me accountable over someone else’s post.” It just does not cut it… you are in a “network” and in the “network” as the dictionary defines…

“An extended group of people with similar interests or concerns who interact and remain in informal contact for mutual assistance or support.”

You are connected because of similar interests. So what are we to surmise from that? What are your similar interests… it seems that there are a bunch of people that seem to want to rag on others they disagree with… (which is one of the criticisms of the emerging church btw) And in that “ragging” it is often about very MINOR issues as opposed to calling someone a name… or a heretic… or an apostate.

The Bible tells us we will have disagreement, (1 Cor 11:19) yet that is not to divide over. (1 Cor 1:10).

So, can we disagree and yet live at peace? I know the people I associate and network with would do this in a heartbeat… or less… how about your group?

In our disagreements we are told to “live at peace as best you can” (Romans 12:18) as the body of Christ is not divided… and all parts are needed. (1 Cor 12)

So I appeal to scripture… as I already noted that how can some speak against the very Body of our Lord and say that you do not need all its members? Think about that the next time you go to speak against a brother in Christ… (If you have decided that some are not “brothers” I cannot help you… I will only pray that you come to your senses and realize you are not God and cannot see into another man’s heart… for only Holy Spirit know the heart of man.(Romans 8:27)

I close with this appeal to you who see fit to judge others…

1 Cor 4:5 5. ” Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men’s hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God.”

I think “nothing” is pretty clear here… so until the Lord comes hold your judgment for only Christ Jesus will judge in all fairness and justly… John 5:22-23 states:

“Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.”

And finally these words of Jesus Who states in John 8:15-16

“You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one. But if I do judge, my decisions are right, because I am not alone. I stand with the Father, who sent me.”

Are you willing to take the chance and judge another by your human standards? Are you perfectly just in all your decisions? Are all your decisions right?

Then go ahead an judge all you want for you are now God…

OK… if you think I have gone too far… then…

OK. If you think I have gone too far in something… most probably I have. I admit it! I am a frail creature who sometimes lets that worldly flesh get the better of me…

BUT PLEASE NOTE THIS:

My intention is not to just tear down anyone at CRN… but I hope to show that there is some really bad things going on there and if they are a part of it just saying, ” I didn’t write that so don’t hold me accountable over someone else’s post.” It just does not cut it… you are in a “network” and in the “network” as the dictionary defines…

“An extended group of people with similar interests or concerns who interact and remain in informal contact for mutual assistance or support.”

You are connected because of similar interests. So what are we to surmise from that? What are your similar interests… it seems that there are a bunch of people that seem to want to rag on others they disagree with… (which is one of the criticisms of the emerging church btw) And in that “ragging” it is often about very MINOR issues as opposed to calling someone a name… or a heretic… or an apostate.

The Bible tells us we will have disagreement, (1 Cor 11:19) yet that is not to divide over. (1 Cor 1:10).

So, can we disagree and yet live at peace? I know the people I associate and network with would do this in a heartbeat… or less… how about your group?

In our disagreements we are told to “live at peace as best you can” (Romans 12:18) as the body of Christ is not divided… and all parts are needed. (1 Cor 12)

So I appeal to scripture… as I already noted that how can some speak against the very Body of our Lord and say that you do not need all its members? Think about that the next time you go to speak against a brother in Christ… (If you have decided that some are not “brothers” I cannot help you… I will only pray that you come to your senses and realize you are not God and cannot see into another man’s heart… for only Holy Spirit know the heart of man.(Romans 8:27)

I close with this appeal to you who see fit to judge others…

1 Cor 4:5 5. ” Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men’s hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God.”

I think “nothing” is pretty clear here… so until the Lord comes hold your judgment for only Christ Jesus will judge in all fairness and justly… John 5:22-23 states:

“Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.”

And finally these words of Jesus Who states in John 8:15-16

“You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one. But if I do judge, my decisions are right, because I am not alone. I stand with the Father, who sent me.”

Are you willing to take the chance and judge another by your human standards? Are you perfectly just in all your decisions? Are all your decisions right?

Then go ahead an judge all you want for you are now God…

Dishonesty abounds at Pyromaniacs!!!!!

Once again the John MacArthur Crew has taken a sentence, wrenched it out of context, created a new context just so that they could slander someone who is associated with the emerging church movement.

To read the slander by Phil Johnson follow this link.

Dan:
Hello, Dan Kimball here….

Someone emailed me to let me know that Phil posted some opinions on what I wrote and believe.

I thought I would clear up some of the things being misunderstood or left out of what I actually wrote on the chapter as being discussed here.

For one, the book “Listening to the Beliefs of Emerging Churches” was not supposed to be an exhaustive list of everything we believe. That would take a whole volume or more. We were given freedom to write whatever we wanted to and expand on anything, but we were specifically asked to make sure we covered some core theological topics such as the atonement, the Scriptures, the Trinity and religious pluralism.

So when you read what I wrote, I tried to focus on those core things – never saying that is all I believe nor limiting it to there to only what is in the Nicene Creed. I said after that, I do tread with humility and prayer and wonder about things that godly people throughout church history have had differences of opinions on. But I specifically made sure I said that I do have doctrinal beliefs beyond the Nicene Creed. For those that have not read the chapter, you should be aware that I also stated other beliefs.

On page 105 I specifically said “It is hard to communicate in one chapter what a church believes and practices theologically. I tried to highlight a few core beliefs and share my heart about the importance of theology.”

On page 94 I said “Please understand, that as I say I left more to mystery, it doesn’t mean I don’t believe you can’t come to solid conclusions about many things in addition to the Nicene Creed. There are many things mentioned that I believe are clear, such as Jesus’ teaching about marriage, the authority of the Bible itself, the role of the Spirit in personal transformation.”

I clearly stated in the chapter I believe in a Triune God (pages 99-100), I believe in the substitionary atonement (pages 100-101), believe in the inspiration and authority of the Scriptures (page 94-97), that all religions do not lead to God (page 101-102), an eternal heaven and hell (page 102).

Phil, you rather sharply and in my opinion very inaccurately wrote about my message in the chapter:”

The message of Kimball’s chapter seems to epitomize the trend: “Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth” (2 Timothy 3:7).”

I clearly stated that I have belief in “truth” giving some brief listings of theological positions on very core doctrines in addition to those in the Nicene Creed. I also wrote a section with a header called “We can be bold and confident in what the Scriptures do make clear” (page 99).

I read at your own Shepherd’s Conference the flurry of debate about your end times distinct position that was spoken on. Would all those who hold to core doctrines as I listed for myself, but believe in an amillennial position be seens as 2 Timothy 3:7 kinds of people?

If anyone in your circles and frequenters of this blog has specific questions to clarify anything I believe, or what our church practices, please feel free to go to my blog http://www.dankimball.com and I will be more than happy to respond or to answer questions.

This summer, two students from Masters College visited our church on a Sunday. Afterwards, they said something like “This is nothing like we expected. You preached from the Bible.” They listed other things from Masters College that they were taught all emerging churches were supposed to be like. Some of the descriptions were so incredibly sad and inaccurate and I was glad they got to see and experience first hand that some of the stereotypes and accusations were not all true.

Peace in Jesus – Dan

http://www.dankimball.com
11:46 AM, April 06, 2007

My take on all this:

The constant mode of operation from the critics of the emerging church is very consistent. They take a sentence and then build a straw man argument to make it say the opposite that it really does. It seems that Truth is not that important and that lying is a “righteous thing” if you are attacking someone you believe to be a heretic. The real issue is this. How can anyone justify attacking another brother in the Lord? It seems that Scripture means little to the John MacArthur and Crew crowd as they seem to not care that scripture itself tells us so often to not judge each other and that Jesus alone is to be the Judge over all mankind.

Romans 8: 29-39.

“For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. What, then, shall we say in response to this? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all–how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died–more than that, who was raised to life–is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword?

As it is written

“For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.”

No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”

It is sad that JM and crew seem fitting that they should attack Dan Kimball over the weekend we celebrate the Resurrection. For by the resurrection we have been justified by Christ and set free… yet some seem fit to usurp Christ from the Throne and judge others themselves… with slanderous lies…

So once again we find from the JM crowd… that it is “Grace to you” only if you line up behind John MacArthur…

Beware of divisive men!

You can read Bob Hyatts response here.

So it seems the “Truth wars” are officially on… and so far the accusers are ranking a big zero on the truth meter… and owe one huge apology… yet I really think that pride will keep Phil Johnson from being able to see his own arrogant ways.

Blessings,

iggy

Be sure to check out the latest at Watching the watchdawgs for Christ blog… Does Ken need real help?

Dishonesty abounds at Pyromaniacs!!!!!

Once again the John MacArthur Crew has taken a sentence, wrenched it out of context, created a new context just so that they could slander someone who is associated with the emerging church movement.

To read the slander by Phil Johnson follow this link.

Dan:
Hello, Dan Kimball here….

Someone emailed me to let me know that Phil posted some opinions on what I wrote and believe.

I thought I would clear up some of the things being misunderstood or left out of what I actually wrote on the chapter as being discussed here.

For one, the book “Listening to the Beliefs of Emerging Churches” was not supposed to be an exhaustive list of everything we believe. That would take a whole volume or more. We were given freedom to write whatever we wanted to and expand on anything, but we were specifically asked to make sure we covered some core theological topics such as the atonement, the Scriptures, the Trinity and religious pluralism.

So when you read what I wrote, I tried to focus on those core things – never saying that is all I believe nor limiting it to there to only what is in the Nicene Creed. I said after that, I do tread with humility and prayer and wonder about things that godly people throughout church history have had differences of opinions on. But I specifically made sure I said that I do have doctrinal beliefs beyond the Nicene Creed. For those that have not read the chapter, you should be aware that I also stated other beliefs.

On page 105 I specifically said “It is hard to communicate in one chapter what a church believes and practices theologically. I tried to highlight a few core beliefs and share my heart about the importance of theology.”

On page 94 I said “Please understand, that as I say I left more to mystery, it doesn’t mean I don’t believe you can’t come to solid conclusions about many things in addition to the Nicene Creed. There are many things mentioned that I believe are clear, such as Jesus’ teaching about marriage, the authority of the Bible itself, the role of the Spirit in personal transformation.”

I clearly stated in the chapter I believe in a Triune God (pages 99-100), I believe in the substitionary atonement (pages 100-101), believe in the inspiration and authority of the Scriptures (page 94-97), that all religions do not lead to God (page 101-102), an eternal heaven and hell (page 102).

Phil, you rather sharply and in my opinion very inaccurately wrote about my message in the chapter:”

The message of Kimball’s chapter seems to epitomize the trend: “Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth” (2 Timothy 3:7).”

I clearly stated that I have belief in “truth” giving some brief listings of theological positions on very core doctrines in addition to those in the Nicene Creed. I also wrote a section with a header called “We can be bold and confident in what the Scriptures do make clear” (page 99).

I read at your own Shepherd’s Conference the flurry of debate about your end times distinct position that was spoken on. Would all those who hold to core doctrines as I listed for myself, but believe in an amillennial position be seens as 2 Timothy 3:7 kinds of people?

If anyone in your circles and frequenters of this blog has specific questions to clarify anything I believe, or what our church practices, please feel free to go to my blog http://www.dankimball.com and I will be more than happy to respond or to answer questions.

This summer, two students from Masters College visited our church on a Sunday. Afterwards, they said something like “This is nothing like we expected. You preached from the Bible.” They listed other things from Masters College that they were taught all emerging churches were supposed to be like. Some of the descriptions were so incredibly sad and inaccurate and I was glad they got to see and experience first hand that some of the stereotypes and accusations were not all true.

Peace in Jesus – Dan

http://www.dankimball.com
11:46 AM, April 06, 2007

My take on all this:

The constant mode of operation from the critics of the emerging church is very consistent. They take a sentence and then build a straw man argument to make it say the opposite that it really does. It seems that Truth is not that important and that lying is a “righteous thing” if you are attacking someone you believe to be a heretic. The real issue is this. How can anyone justify attacking another brother in the Lord? It seems that Scripture means little to the John MacArthur and Crew crowd as they seem to not care that scripture itself tells us so often to not judge each other and that Jesus alone is to be the Judge over all mankind.

Romans 8: 29-39.

“For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. What, then, shall we say in response to this? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all–how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died–more than that, who was raised to life–is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword?

As it is written

“For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.”

No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”

It is sad that JM and crew seem fitting that they should attack Dan Kimball over the weekend we celebrate the Resurrection. For by the resurrection we have been justified by Christ and set free… yet some seem fit to usurp Christ from the Throne and judge others themselves… with slanderous lies…

So once again we find from the JM crowd… that it is “Grace to you” only if you line up behind John MacArthur…

Beware of divisive men!

You can read Bob Hyatts response here.

So it seems the “Truth wars” are officially on… and so far the accusers are ranking a big zero on the truth meter… and owe one huge apology… yet I really think that pride will keep Phil Johnson from being able to see his own arrogant ways.

Blessings,

iggy

Be sure to check out the latest at Watching the watchdawgs for Christ blog… Does Ken need real help?