An Atheists View of Christians: Christians for Torture

Brothers and sisters, the world is watching us. Don’t you get that? They seem to sometimes know more how we should act that we do! My friend Steve Lay who has a blog called The Groundworks emailed me this article and really, it breaks my heart…

iggy

Christians for Torture

So what in the world is an atheist to think when he sees the widespread Christian support for torture? Yes, torture. But don’t Christians claim to follow the ethics of Jesus and the apostles in the New Testament? These are unbelievable poll results. Christian torture advocates should be ashamed of themselves for being so ignorant of New Testament ethics. We associate torture with the Soviet Union under Stalin, China under Mao, …..

It is pastors who ought to be teaching and warning their congregations about what is wrong with the U.S. empire, the U.S. military, the CIA, U.S. wars, and U.S. foreign policy. Instead, we have pastors that lead their congregations to pledge to the flag, sing praise to the state on every national holiday, and honor the U.S. war machine on special military appreciation days.

What have we come to in the United States when people who name the name of Christ support torture? How dare Christians criticize Muslims for saying that Islam is a religion of peace and then advocate the torturing of suspected terrorists? By their support for torture, Christians have given “great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme” (2 Samuel 12:14).

Continue the article from: lewrockwell.com

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A funny and strange dream…

Just woke from a funny and strange dream.

I was on a tour bus with Doug Pagitt, Tony Jones, Andrew Jones and a couple of other guys going to a conference of some sort. I realized I was the only one that did not have a laptop! I was very concerned over this so called Bob Hyatt for advise. He told me to just buy a pen and paper notebook. Bob is very smart! LOL!

I just woke up laughing over it! It was pretty absurd.

iggy

A funny and strange dream…

Just woke from a funny and strange dream.

I was on a tour bus with Doug Pagitt, Tony Jones, Andrew Jones and a couple of other guys going to a conference of some sort. I realized I was the only one that did not have a laptop! I was very concerned over this so called Bob Hyatt for advise. He told me to just buy a pen and paper notebook. Bob is very smart! LOL!

I just woke up laughing over it! It was pretty absurd.

iggy

Tony Jones On Steve Brown Etc…

Tony Jones interview on Steve Brown Etc. Great show… great interview.

Download MP3 Play in Popup or you can listen to his show at 1PM mst on iggyRocks!

Blessings,

iggy

Tony Jones On Steve Brown Etc…

Tony Jones interview on Steve Brown Etc. Great show… great interview.

Download MP3 Play in Popup or you can listen to his show at 1PM mst on iggyRocks!

Blessings,

iggy

The New Christians: Tony Jones

Of all at Emergent, Tony Jones has been one that intrigued me the most. I really like much he offers at Emergent Village such as the Plato Smackdown and other podcast dealing with philosophy and religion.

With that I had some great anticipation when heard he had a book come out. Now, I caution that like other “Emergents” Tony is but one voice in a much larger conversation. I do see heavy influence by Brian McLaren both from the title to the much that is spoken about by in New Kind of Christian as we flash forward and find the pioneers who blazed trails and also took the arrows.

I was not disappointed with Tony’s book. I see though as I look around the web (I usually try not to as I am about to write a review, yet for some reason I did…) I see that the chapters Tony talks about the “chickens” seem to miss the mark with some. It seems some people miss the understanding of stewardship and think Tony is “out to save the chickens” truthfully I saw that chapter about saving Christianity from consumerism… not just consumerism, but wanton destruction and total disregard for God’s creation. The own took to heart his business, the officers, thought it a joke to worry about the humane slaughter of chickens… and many of them were “Christians”. To me to understand that (which seemed a simple illustration) one would begin to grasp the issues we see as emerging… Christians.

My favorite point that Tony makes is how he explains “Absolute truth” I won’t spoil it, but suffice it to say, I wish I have the simple illustration to explain why I see that the biblical definition of Truth needs no “qualifier” and to add to it, actually takes away from it and adds more issues than if we just stood on the bibles definition. This is not to throw out “absolutes” rather to gain that Truth is a Person… Jesus Christ… and not a detached abstract thought.

If one is trying to get an understanding on the “movement” this will give a bit more to the grand puzzle. But, realize as I already stated, this is a grand mosaic of many conversants. To say this book wraps it all up neatly, would be misleading, yet it will help flesh out the misunderstandings that are out there. (unless you get stuck thinking about saving chickens for Jesus and miss the point!) = )

For other voices about the book..

Next Wave

Tall Skinny Kiwi

Mmmm, That’s Good Coffee…

Be Bless,

iggy

The New Christians: Tony Jones

Of all at Emergent, Tony Jones has been one that intrigued me the most. I really like much he offers at Emergent Village such as the Plato Smackdown and other podcast dealing with philosophy and religion.

With that I had some great anticipation when heard he had a book come out. Now, I caution that like other “Emergents” Tony is but one voice in a much larger conversation. I do see heavy influence by Brian McLaren both from the title to the much that is spoken about by in New Kind of Christian as we flash forward and find the pioneers who blazed trails and also took the arrows.

I was not disappointed with Tony’s book. I see though as I look around the web (I usually try not to as I am about to write a review, yet for some reason I did…) I see that the chapters Tony talks about the “chickens” seem to miss the mark with some. It seems some people miss the understanding of stewardship and think Tony is “out to save the chickens” truthfully I saw that chapter about saving Christianity from consumerism… not just consumerism, but wanton destruction and total disregard for God’s creation. The own took to heart his business, the officers, thought it a joke to worry about the humane slaughter of chickens… and many of them were “Christians”. To me to understand that (which seemed a simple illustration) one would begin to grasp the issues we see as emerging… Christians.

My favorite point that Tony makes is how he explains “Absolute truth” I won’t spoil it, but suffice it to say, I wish I have the simple illustration to explain why I see that the biblical definition of Truth needs no “qualifier” and to add to it, actually takes away from it and adds more issues than if we just stood on the bibles definition. This is not to throw out “absolutes” rather to gain that Truth is a Person… Jesus Christ… and not a detached abstract thought.

If one is trying to get an understanding on the “movement” this will give a bit more to the grand puzzle. But, realize as I already stated, this is a grand mosaic of many conversants. To say this book wraps it all up neatly, would be misleading, yet it will help flesh out the misunderstandings that are out there. (unless you get stuck thinking about saving chickens for Jesus and miss the point!) = )

For other voices about the book..

Next Wave

Tall Skinny Kiwi

Mmmm, That’s Good Coffee…

Be Bless,

iggy

The Wittenburg Door Interview: Brian McLaren

The Wittenburg Door Interview
Brian McLaren

By Becky Garrison

May/June 2007

He’s controversial. He’s heralded by some and accused of being apostate by others. Brian McLaren is unapologetic. He says he believes in the life, death on the Cross, and triumphant resurrection of Jesus Christ. Meanwhile, this pastor, author, speaker, and networker is listed as one of America’s 25 most influential evangelicals by Time magazine. McLaren got there primarily on the strength of more than a dozen challenging (some would say danged near heretical) books that have resonated with millions of readers, including The Secret Message of Jesus: Uncovering the Truth That Could Change Everything; A Generous Orthodoxy, The Last Word and the Word After That: Faith Doubt and a New Kind of Christianity; A New Kind of Christian: A Tale of Two Friends on a Spiritual Journey; A Search for What is Real: Finding Faith and others.
Sinner, seeker, saint? One interview won’t decide it. But here are Brian’s words. From here, it’s up to you. (Log on to http://www.brianmclaren.net for all things Brian.)

WITTENBURG DOOR: First off, how would you respond to those who say that you’re a proponent of a theology that has abandoned the cross?

BRIAN MCLAREN: I can’t imagine why anyone would say I have abandoned the cross!

DOOR: Some do …

MCLAREN: Sheesh. I guess this kind of thing would be coming from people who claim that the gospel can be reduced to one theory of atonement.

Read the full article here.

The Wittenburg Door Interview: Brian McLaren

The Wittenburg Door Interview
Brian McLaren

By Becky Garrison

May/June 2007

He’s controversial. He’s heralded by some and accused of being apostate by others. Brian McLaren is unapologetic. He says he believes in the life, death on the Cross, and triumphant resurrection of Jesus Christ. Meanwhile, this pastor, author, speaker, and networker is listed as one of America’s 25 most influential evangelicals by Time magazine. McLaren got there primarily on the strength of more than a dozen challenging (some would say danged near heretical) books that have resonated with millions of readers, including The Secret Message of Jesus: Uncovering the Truth That Could Change Everything; A Generous Orthodoxy, The Last Word and the Word After That: Faith Doubt and a New Kind of Christianity; A New Kind of Christian: A Tale of Two Friends on a Spiritual Journey; A Search for What is Real: Finding Faith and others.
Sinner, seeker, saint? One interview won’t decide it. But here are Brian’s words. From here, it’s up to you. (Log on to http://www.brianmclaren.net for all things Brian.)

WITTENBURG DOOR: First off, how would you respond to those who say that you’re a proponent of a theology that has abandoned the cross?

BRIAN MCLAREN: I can’t imagine why anyone would say I have abandoned the cross!

DOOR: Some do …

MCLAREN: Sheesh. I guess this kind of thing would be coming from people who claim that the gospel can be reduced to one theory of atonement.

Read the full article here.

More misinformation on the propagation highway: Greg Gilbert versus Brian McLaren

More misinformation on the propagation highway: Greg Gilbert versus Brian McLaren

“…McLaren misses what is perhaps the most astonishing surprise of the New Testament story: that Jesus filled the roles of the Davidic Messiah, the Suffering Servant of Isaiah, and Daniel’s Son of Man, all at the same time! That McLaren does not see this, or at least does not hint at it in his books, is all the more surprising because he is so careful otherwise to situate the story of Jesus in the narrative of the nation of Israel. The Suffering Servant of Isaiah and the Son of Man of Daniel 7 are not insignificant themes in the Old Testament, and neither were they insignificant ideas in the Jewish mind of Jesus’ day. How McLaren could ignore them so completely—not to mention the startling role they play in Jesus’ own self-understanding—is nothing short of a mystery.”

This is just one of the many points of misinformation and redirection. Greg Gilbert actually states that McLaren agrees with things like the atonement… yet twists things around such as in the case of the quote above to mean that McLaren is stating he really does not believe this after all… and that is called propagation and a lie.

What Greg Gilbert is doing is what he is actually saying McLaren has done! He takes what McLaren states then acknowledges it, then negates it.

And what Greg Gilbert ends up with is… a gospel “of “getting your butt into heaven,”… and a focus on the eternal the leaves us with nothing here and now of Jesus. And that is the point McLaren is making. Gilberts in this article confirms what McLaren is saying is true!

Now, anyone who has actually bothered to read Brian McLaren’s books will see that McLaren believes in an eternal life! Much of the books I have read states that and many of the lectures I have heard by him are nothing but mini N. T. Wright summaries… AND NO ONE WILL SAY N.T.WRIGHT DOES NOT BELIEVE IN AN AFTERLIFE!

So, once again we have people who admit McLaren is orthodox… and teaches the very things that many say he does nto… and in this case after doing that… Gilbert affirms what McLaren has set out.

I wonder why the focus is that one must try so hard as to redirect us from things that Jesus taught us to do NOW such as loving our enemies… as why would we need to if all our focus is on the eternal and not NOW.

So, as far as fairness, this may be one of the fluffiest propagation pieces I have read… but as far as grasping anything that is actually taught by Brian McLaren… it is a big miss…

If it was not so sad that someone has to write lies about another… it would be hilarious.

Be Blessed,
iggy