Archive for the ‘John MacArthur’ Category

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Doug Padgitt and a stolen bit from my other blog site.

October 28, 2007

First off those at mychurch.com will notice that this was a comment in the last post. But since this blog is originally at Blogger.com, not everyone has read those comments.

I finally listened to Doug Padgitt on Way of the Master Radio… and first off… Todd Friel is truly a rude individual. Doug did a great job. What I noticed is that this will of course be touted as Doug is a heretic and a win for their side… but I see that Doug pointed out the issues that are in the so called “systematic theology” that Todd was pushing on that site. I do wish Doug expounded a bit on the difference of Todd’s version of “systematic theology” and true “systematic theology” as Todd just pieced about four out of context quotes of Jesus and ran them together in a sick display of proof-texting that only showed that Todd was proving his own preconceived doctrine.

Now, I do also wish Doug (who I admit sounded a bit arrogant, yet truly under the conditions was way beyond being gracious to Todd’s rudeness) also unpacked a bit more on the idea of the narrative story that he believes… I do get that “Heaven is not a place” in the sense that Doug pointed out to Todd, yet confess it is a bit hard to wrap one’s mind around if all you know is the view that Todd has been taught and which as Tony Jones pointed out about 90% of Christianity believes… so I do see Doug could have slowed down and walked Todd through this a bit.

Yet, that being my only real critique that thing that is being touted is that Doug stated that a Muslim or Buddhist will enter the New Creation… in other words that he stated that someone can be saved without Jesus. To be truthful, after listening to it twice I did not hear Doug say that. I heard that all men will be judged the same. I also heard that we are to lead people to Christ Jesus. I do wish Doug connected the thoughts.

Now we are dealing with people who have an escapist mentality and theology… they believe in the “Left Behind” theology that truly even distorts the traditional “Rapture” theology. These people do not see that judgment is a good thing that will set things right… and Doug alluded to a bit stating that anything that is not of God will be purged… (Sorry I can’t remember the exact phrase he used).

The flip side is that if one is on the other side of this judgment then you will be purged also.

Interestingly, Todd used the word “destroyed” when talking about people being judged… I see that if Todd believes that in his own “systematic theology” then he is a heretic as a person cannot be “destroyed” and be “tormented forever” for a destroyed person does not exist!

Which leads me to these thoughts which were a bit in the same vein as the conversation lead my at mychurch.com site.

I find it interesting that much that is taught in Romans 9 is that some are created for wrath and some are created for mercy… and then most Calvinists stop at verse 18 or 24… yet in the next few verses, Paul does the punchline and states that those very vessels of wrath did not seek God and found Him, while the vessels of mercy had God and now were to be judged by God.

What that means is that many are being deceived that they are vessels of mercy by definition of Calvin when in fact it is about Jew and Gentile being made into one man and the Jew thinking he is saved by being a descendant of Abraham by blood and have turned faith into works, are now vessels of wrath, while the Gentiles which were considered the vessels of wrath, are not vessels of mercy! And this all by Grace!

Again, it is in this subtle misunderstanding that I see things go askew with Calvinism.Now, as I stated, I see Arninianism having some quirks also… and many lean on works to maintain salvation which negates Galatians chapter 3 or really the whole book of Galatians as well the bulk of Paul’s writings.

Still I see both as branches of Christianity, and in a sense both polluted by Gnostic/Platonic dualism which makes the whole a little warped as it over emphasizes the existing heaven and hell as eternal destinations and goal of our faith over salvation and eternal life in the New Heaven and New Earth… I just see that many are trapped in a faulty theology that denies that Hell will be cast into the Lake of Fire and in one breath state men will burn forever and the other that they will be destroyed… it can’t be both… but that is what is taught…

The New Creation, that we are now a part of as of the Resurrection and are called by Paul as believers… is the continuation and regeneration of all Creation being restored to and maybe beyond its original glory… I see that like we are resurrected and clothed in the imperishable it will still be us, that this will still be the earth and heaven only also clothed or purged of all evil and sin and what a glory that will be to behold.

be blessed,
iggy

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I forgot about mychurch…

October 27, 2007

I forgot at some point I signed up for mychurch.com and had my blog at blogger.com being posted there also… the last post on “John MacArthur: Can one be an Arminian and still be saved?” has been developing some interesting conversation over there.

Be blessed,

iggy

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I forgot about mychurch…

October 27, 2007

I forgot at some point I signed up for mychurch.com and had my blog at blogger.com being posted there also… the last post on “John MacArthur: Can one be an Arminian and still be saved?” has been developing some interesting conversation over there.

Be blessed,

iggy

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John MacArthur: Can one be an Arminian and still be saved?

October 26, 2007

I read from two different sources what John MacArthur thinks concerning salvation of Arminians… and really I ended up scratching my head… what does he really believe?

“So, they are diametrically opposed. The question comes, “Can somebody who holds an Arminian view be a Christian?” And I would hate to say they couldn’t be. I really believe that it is possible to be Arminian and to be a Christian…to misunderstand your human capability, to misunderstand the election, to misunderstand the extent of the atonement, even to misunderstand the irresistible nature of God’s saving grace, and even to think you could lose your salvation. But, at the same time–while being confused or ignorant of those things–to know that you’re a sinner and know that the only way of salvation is through Jesus Christ. I guess you could say that someone could be an Arminian and push those points far enough, where they could jeopardize my confidence that they really are a Christian. You could push the point of not being totally depraved far enough where you’re actually being saved by your own works, by your own belief, by your own ingenuity, by your own self-induced faith. And you could get to the point where you could really wonder whether someone understands that it’s all a work of God.

But, I think it would be going too far to say someone who holds an Arminian view, or anyone who holds an Arminian view, is, by virtue of that view, not a Christian. I think there are people who just don’t understand rightly those things, but who know they’re sinners and who cry out in their sin for the Lord to save them. They don’t understand how what they’re doing works together with the great purposes and power of God, and consequently can’t give God fully the glory He deserves for all of that, but they could be genuinely saved, by hoping in Christ and Christ alone.” Source

Or this?

“He (Spurgeon) preached that both predestination and (limited) free-will were simultaneously in full force. He believed that in the end that salvation was wholly of God from start to finish, and yet God secures the complete cooperation of our wills in so-doing. He decried both antinomianism and fatalism (only predestination) and Arminianism (only free will) and said that anyone who denied either of these two truths was engaged in heresy.

He openly called both heresy. I tend to agree. I really like what this guy says since I had come to the same conclusions myself.

But he said something that confused me for a long time and said that John Wesley (a famous Arminian) was a man of God, yes he disagreed with him, but he said he had great respect for the man.

The best explanation I can come up for this is that Arminians are confused about how they came to Christ, but their definition of the atonement, and who Christ is is accurate, as is their view of sanctification (no striving by works), so it is possible Biblically to admit that Arminians are our brothers and sisters in Christ. It took me a lot of thought to get here however as at first glance I thought a heretical viewpoint always produces heretics who aren’t saved.

The message I heard was that Arminians might be on the the right side of the line, but just barely, just a little more confused thinking about other related issues and the line is easily crossed. You don’t have to get the finer points of theology to be saved, but certain basics are required and Arminianism appears to pass the test, barely, and only if you are willing admit that a faulty view of the atonment is not sufficient to block salvation. As time passes I realize that Spurgeon is essentially spouting double-speak, the definition of heresy is a soul-destroying perversion of either the Gospel or the nature of God. There is no such thing as a heresy that doesn’t kill. Therefore, to be technically accurate, if you believe an Arminian can be a Christian, then to you, Arminianism is not heresy. However, many Arminians of today have swallowed enough other false doctrines to sink their ships so there is no need to argue about Arminianism. I for example was such a one. Spurgeon is consistent with most of his forebears however, including Augustine, who first faced a theology similar to Arminianism, and dealt with it as one would to a brother in Christ, and not as one would deal with a heretic who is outside the body. “
Source

Now, talk about double speak! On one hand Arminians are saved, but are heretics and heresy kills… but as you keep reading John he is clear that they are not saved!

So which is it… or is he double minded?

Be Blessed,
iggy

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John MacArthur: Can one be an Arminian and still be saved?

October 26, 2007

I read from two different sources what John MacArthur thinks concerning salvation of Arminians… and really I ended up scratching my head… what does he really believe?

“So, they are diametrically opposed. The question comes, “Can somebody who holds an Arminian view be a Christian?” And I would hate to say they couldn’t be. I really believe that it is possible to be Arminian and to be a Christian…to misunderstand your human capability, to misunderstand the election, to misunderstand the extent of the atonement, even to misunderstand the irresistible nature of God’s saving grace, and even to think you could lose your salvation. But, at the same time–while being confused or ignorant of those things–to know that you’re a sinner and know that the only way of salvation is through Jesus Christ. I guess you could say that someone could be an Arminian and push those points far enough, where they could jeopardize my confidence that they really are a Christian. You could push the point of not being totally depraved far enough where you’re actually being saved by your own works, by your own belief, by your own ingenuity, by your own self-induced faith. And you could get to the point where you could really wonder whether someone understands that it’s all a work of God.

But, I think it would be going too far to say someone who holds an Arminian view, or anyone who holds an Arminian view, is, by virtue of that view, not a Christian. I think there are people who just don’t understand rightly those things, but who know they’re sinners and who cry out in their sin for the Lord to save them. They don’t understand how what they’re doing works together with the great purposes and power of God, and consequently can’t give God fully the glory He deserves for all of that, but they could be genuinely saved, by hoping in Christ and Christ alone.” Source

Or this?

“He (Spurgeon) preached that both predestination and (limited) free-will were simultaneously in full force. He believed that in the end that salvation was wholly of God from start to finish, and yet God secures the complete cooperation of our wills in so-doing. He decried both antinomianism and fatalism (only predestination) and Arminianism (only free will) and said that anyone who denied either of these two truths was engaged in heresy.

He openly called both heresy. I tend to agree. I really like what this guy says since I had come to the same conclusions myself.

But he said something that confused me for a long time and said that John Wesley (a famous Arminian) was a man of God, yes he disagreed with him, but he said he had great respect for the man.

The best explanation I can come up for this is that Arminians are confused about how they came to Christ, but their definition of the atonement, and who Christ is is accurate, as is their view of sanctification (no striving by works), so it is possible Biblically to admit that Arminians are our brothers and sisters in Christ. It took me a lot of thought to get here however as at first glance I thought a heretical viewpoint always produces heretics who aren’t saved.

The message I heard was that Arminians might be on the the right side of the line, but just barely, just a little more confused thinking about other related issues and the line is easily crossed. You don’t have to get the finer points of theology to be saved, but certain basics are required and Arminianism appears to pass the test, barely, and only if you are willing admit that a faulty view of the atonment is not sufficient to block salvation. As time passes I realize that Spurgeon is essentially spouting double-speak, the definition of heresy is a soul-destroying perversion of either the Gospel or the nature of God. There is no such thing as a heresy that doesn’t kill. Therefore, to be technically accurate, if you believe an Arminian can be a Christian, then to you, Arminianism is not heresy. However, many Arminians of today have swallowed enough other false doctrines to sink their ships so there is no need to argue about Arminianism. I for example was such a one. Spurgeon is consistent with most of his forebears however, including Augustine, who first faced a theology similar to Arminianism, and dealt with it as one would to a brother in Christ, and not as one would deal with a heretic who is outside the body. “
Source

Now, talk about double speak! On one hand Arminians are saved, but are heretics and heresy kills… but as you keep reading John he is clear that they are not saved!

So which is it… or is he double minded?

Be Blessed,
iggy

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Tony Jones is Reformed!

October 25, 2007

Tony Jones is Reformed! But then who will listen when we have MacArthurites to say Tony is not…

I thought it was a good read though a bit old now. Oh! and don’t forget to update your links to Tony’s new blog. http://tonyj.net/

Be Blessed,
iggy

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Tony Jones is Reformed!

October 25, 2007

Tony Jones is Reformed! But then who will listen when we have MacArthurites to say Tony is not…

I thought it was a good read though a bit old now. Oh! and don’t forget to update your links to Tony’s new blog. http://tonyj.net/

Be Blessed,
iggy